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[Deathworks]

Hi!

After having heard a lot on the forums and in the wiki about them, I finally managed to get the goblins to lay siege to my fortress in the spring of 1057.

Because oversized farming has been draining my workforce constantly, my fortress wasn't really as prepared as I would have liked it to be and so I was worried that they would swarm over my traps and slaughter my civilian dwarves... But things ended up comepletely differently.
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-563-claspglides

above is an image from 1054, but the fortress hasn't grown much; a little bit of workshop space west of the cave river and a single-tile tunnel straight to the chasm because I tried to save a moody dwarf.

As for the defenses, the weapon traps in the main entrance area were 4 layers deep and the decoy room south of it was completely filled with stonefall traps. The 5x5 room in the entrance area with the well is my barracks.

So, after being alerted to the siege, I checked and there were about 15 goblins of various professions, including crossbowmen near the NW corner of the map. None of the nasties the wiki mentioned like beak dogs or trolls. I quickly recruited all dwarves that were outside and stationed them in the barracks, closed the inner door of the barracks and ordered dwarves to stay inside. When all dwarves and cats were inside the fortress proper, I opened the inner door of the barracks and in turn closed the outer door.

I checked on the goblins, and they were still regrouping in that corner. So, I ordered some reserve crossbows to be made and a practice target to be placed in the barracks.

I checked on the goblins again. They were still in that corner. With a bad feeling, I unlocked the outer door of the barracks. Returning to the goblins, I saw that they finally started moving. Those cheating bastards! How could they know whether the door was locked or not?

Anyhow, when they arrived at the entrance area, only one of the four recruits/markdwarves I had stationed there was ready for action. The goblins moved past the wagon, which I had all forgotten about without even giving it a second look. When they were only a few tiles away from the outer channel, I locked the door again to prevent any plundering dwarves to march into the reach of those crossbow goblins.

One goblin walked into the first weapon trap and his limbs were sent flying. Another one walked into a weapon trap right next to it, first fell unconscious and then died there. Then another two joined them, not even getting past the first layer of weapon traps. As the fourth goblin was reduced to a bunch of '2's, the *SIEGE* highlight disappeared and the surviving goblins ran away.

So, my markdwarves didn't even get a chance to practice on some live targets.
I only got to loot four goblins (still should make the human merchants happy).
With all the body parts rotting there, the entrance area became miasma paradise for months.
On the positive side, no dwarves or cats got hurt during the incident.
Ah, and there was no Elven caravan that year, because the goblins took so long.

All in all, I find this rather disappointing. I would have expected them to be more pushy, creative, or threatening... They didn't even look at the decoy room. And they didn't try to jam the weapon traps (which I was most afraid of, because there were only 4 complete layers).

Deathworks

[Shadowlord]

My last goblin invasion had around 60-80 goblins in it. The first force they send is usually considerably smaller, and is probably just a scouting force or something.

[Tormy]

Well yes, sadly sieges are pretty much boring as it is now. Weapon traps + defenses can kill off any invasion force very easily, you dont even need military.
If you want some challenge, dont use traps and defenses.

A couple of months ago there was a thread about the sieges, and the players have posted many ideas, that how could they be more challenging.
For example: Specific Goblin units should spot and disable traps, some special units should carry items to bypass the water or magma channels etc.

[ August 17, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]

[Ostsol]

I think Toady also mentioned an idea about sappers, basically allowing siegers to make their own tunnels right into your fortress, bypassing doors and traps entirely.

[mikefictiti0us]

Indeed, even the large sieges are far too easy to withstand provided you have a sufficient number of traps and defenses. That's why I don't use traps anymore, and I limit the amount of catapults and ballista, so my army always ends up meeting the filthy gobs in combat. More fun that way!

[Gaulgath]

My fort is currently in its seventh or so year, and the goblin sieges are brutal. We don't have any traps, so we rely completely on our military. Well, we lose about 3/4 of it every siege because of the rediculous fully-iron-clad-machine-gun-bowmen they bring tons of. I usually end up recruiting my entire population and sending them in, hoping for the best. Last siege we lost a lot of dwarves, and they STILL had two regiments right on our doorstep. Well, JUST as they were leaving ANOTHER siege appears.

I'm putting down some weapon traps. This is rediculous.

[ August 17, 2007: Message edited by: Gaulgath ]

[mikefictiti0us]

quote:Originally posted by Gaulgath:
<STRONG>My fort is currently in its seventh or so year, and the goblin sieges are brutal. We don't have any traps, so we rely completely on our military. Well, we lose about 3/4 of it every siege because of the rediculous fully-iron-clad-machine-gun-bowmen they bring tons of. I usually end up recruiting my entire population and sending them in, hoping for the best. Last siege we lost a lot of dwarves, and they STILL had two regiments right on our doorstep. Well, JUST as they were leaving ANOTHER siege appears.

I'm putting down some weapon traps. This is rediculous.

[ August 17, 2007: Message edited by: Gaulgath ]</STRONG>

It's times like this that a raging pack of furious elephants would truly come in handy. Or better yet, Dwarves RIDING on the elephants, directing them to squash the goblins into mush while they shave the scalps of the goblins with their axes! Muahah....

[ August 17, 2007: Message edited by: mikefictiti0us ]

[Tarrasque]

At the very least you did not have to flood the buggers or anything to kill them. I guess if you want things to be a bit more challenging use traps, but, don't put a full solid line of traps. Put them sporatically, or just put one line of them or something. I would still prefere to have my dwarves launch siege weaponry at the unsuspecting goblins as they poured into my fortress area laiden with only a few traps guarding the doors to my fortifications. Along with my marksdwarves shooting through the holes the catapults are using. Then the two squads of meele dwarves waiting in case the goblins decide to get through my traps. Would be glorious.

[Kylaer]

Don't worry, I'm sure the goblins are only the first of many foes to be included as the game progresses. Or, better, I hope we'll have the ability to add our own civilizations - I'd want to make a very nasty sieging type, encompassing various types of monsters.

Just think: instead of getting the regular goblin message, imagine getting one saying "The great beast has come, the destroyer of worlds." And then the chittering flood comes...

[Lightning4]

I think it's a little more fun to rely on a mix. My current fortress has eight bone/wooden crossbows guarding the entrance, arranged as an alternating grid Though they still tear goblins into chunks, my military dwarves do see action, though primarily just the marksdwarves. Poor melee almost always get rendered into swiss cheese when they charge into combat.

So far have gotten to my 13th year, but every siege has been remarkably weak ever since the third one (Ruler + weaponmaster). Last siege didn't even have any weapon masters, just about 4 squads of goblins.

Gonna have to make my fortress a lot more inviting for plunder I suppose

[ August 17, 2007: Message edited by: Lightning4 ]

[SnowWhite]

If you're really lucky, maybe you'll get a dragon to give you a challenge.  :-)

I've learned to always keep a few talented siege operators around.  Plus, once the goblins get easy, I dig for fire demons.  &

[Ravendas]

If you want to play with an army, i suggest setting arrow/bolt damage down to 50, from 100. That makes it actually doable.

My fort is in its 13th year, and has 20 swordsdwarf champions, in steel and iron armor. They ravage any intruders without any help from traps. I have a significant portion of my workforce in my military, and its much more fun like this in my opinion.

2 champions took down a titan, and 3 took down a bronze colossus. I want a dragon to invade now.

[Tarrasque]

Anyone else like the lower bolt and arrow damage? Also, where do you to go change that?

[Deathworks]

Hi!

Well, I am playing with a population cap of 30 (although immigration initially took my population to nearly 50 or so despite the cap!!) and I am also not that good at handling chaotic situations, so I still want the traps to handle the brunt of the situation.

Still, that very mechanic approach of the goblins was really what disappointed me. I mean, they knew exactly where my only entrance to the fortress was, they knew that the door was locked, even without moving from the edge of the map. So, basically, I could remote control them. As long as I kept the door locked, they wouldn't move a single tile from their start position. And once I felt ready for them, all I had to do was unlock the door to cause them to move in a straight line for my entrance. So, I was missing the feeling of exploration there.

This also means that the decoy room can probably also be made very efficient. Once I figure out what would attract the goblin raiders, I could place it there as bait and be sure to attract some goblins to die there. Sigh.

And as I mentioned before, I have that image of the goblinoid hordes where they simply try to overrun all enemy defenses, crawling over the bodies of their fallen comrades... With weapon traps eventually jamming (stone falls are one-shot anyway), this should be theoretically possible.

I guess, I will simply ignore the next siege. This way it will be over quickly - the door will be open so the goblins will approach my entrance right away and judging from the results of the previous siege, it will be quite a while before the four layers of weapon traps are not sufficient.

So, with the current set of foes, there should be little to worry about... invaders from the river are really nothing to fear and thus far only large rats seem to have crawled up from the chasm - who are quickly dealt with by the stone fall traps there.

Deathworks

[Tormy]

quote:Originally posted by Kylaer:
<STRONG>Don't worry, I'm sure the goblins are only the first of many foes to be included as the game progresses. Or, better, I hope we'll have the ability to add our own civilizations - I'd want to make a very nasty sieging type, encompassing various types of monsters.

Just think: instead of getting the regular goblin message, imagine getting one saying "The great beast has come, the destroyer of worlds." And then the chittering flood comes...</STRONG>

Yeah I hope that soon we will have much more sieges, and much more hardcore sieges in the game. Special units should be introduced. Units with various abilities like "diggers" [they can make tunnels into the mountain - surprise atack], disable traps [units to spot and disable traps], constructers [units to build some obstacles over the magma + water channels].
Also:

- We all know that ranged weapons are very overpowered now. [Fast fire rate, and hardcore damage, these units are acting like if they would have an AK47]
- Traps and defense systems are also insane good. However this is acceptable, since who would survive a deadly weapon trap? Maybe a Dragon. However this is why I am saying that we need units in all sieges, whose can spot and disable traps or defenses.

[ August 18, 2007: Message edited by: Tormy ]