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[Nelia Hawk]

sadly it still takes 2 weeks of dev diaries.. and then still however many months it takes to release....

would be cool if they make this change a beta version again to "testplay" it "earlier"... also might help modders get used to the new stuff and to give them alot of testing as its a totally new changed system with probably quite a few bugs or maybe little traits that were overlooked or so and people find not working right.

[Telgin]

Considering that some players asking questions about how slaves were supposed to work with that one government civic is what reminded Wiz to implement own species slavery in the new system again, I do hope they do implement it as a public beta for a while.  Otherwise I'll probably have to wait a few minor versions before playing since I'm sure it'll be buggy.

[Rolan7]

Heh, I think we discussed AI resource trading and how they hard-refuse to trade away monthly resources in exchange for one-time resources.  So no "loans", even it's minerals for energy or whatnot.  Fair enough - little bit lazy, SMAC AIs had a loan system, but at least the UI does explain why the Trade Acceptance is -1000 if you mouse over.

Reason I'm amused is that it works in reverse.  They refuse to instant-transfer even a single unit, if you're offering them monthly payments.
To the point that I said "Okay...  What if we don't pay you 10 minerals per month?" and the trade went from -1000 to 3, acceptable.

(Also the UI explanation was the same:  "Does not want to trade away monthly resources for instant resources."  Pretty minor, but inaccurate text heh)

Edit:  Also, protip that there is a relations bonus for offering generous deals, rather than haggling it down to a green 1 Trade Acceptance.  It seems pretty minor in normal cases, and degrades of course.  I haven't tested extreme values, though.

[pisskop]

Gift them 5k minerals when youre at capacity and sit back to enjoy the BJs.

They decay is hardcore, at -2 a month, but at high levels it can push them past the threshold to gain trust-building deals or vassalizations.

The phobic aliens also have a small bonus to relations for enslaving, conquering primitives, or genocide.  heh, its like +2 and decays quickly.


Point is, you can see when they hit their own storage max because they stop accruing points in favor of accepting the trade.

[Telgin]

Huh, I never realized you couldn't mix monthly and instant transfers like that.  Would help explain why I thought everyone just hated my guts when trying to trade.  Honestly, I still don't fully understand the trade acceptance thing, and rarely need to initiate trades anyway.

I'm currently playing a life-seeded game, and I was expecting to need to trade for minerals pretty badly based on what I read about the civic.  I actually haven't had any issues with minerals though, and managed to start building habitats around 2270.  I've got 5 now at 2299, so that's not too bad.

What I'm really sucking on is unity.  I was expecting this tall build to do well with unity, but having only a single planet to generate unity for most of the game means I've been very slow to acquire it.  I was hoping to have Galactic Wonders by now, but it looks like it's going to take a very long time to get my fourth ascension perk.  So much for a Science Nexus by 2300.

The guides I read said to just colonize some planets with droids to mine them, but I'm starting to wonder if I really should have stuck some on monuments too... Droids may be suboptimal for unity generation, but it would have helped.

Maybe I'll try again with Inward Perfection and do that next time.  Maybe I can rush the Science Nexus by 2300, although finishing Megaengineer research is going to take like 15 years by itself in this game, and Zero Point Power took like 9 years before it...

[Trekkin]

I've never been tempted by the start-only civics only because they have the same problem as feats in D&D; they're different but not necessarily strictly better enough to justify the loss of civic flexibility, and I like shifting my empires around so it's a constant annoyance.

It'd be nice if there were a separate menu of mutually exclusive starts along with options for normal, purifier, etc.

[Telgin]

The civics are probably definite downgrades from anything else since they can't be swapped out later and only give starting bonuses, sometimes with steep penalties.  They're RP only things, for sure.

I think Wiz stated at some point that he did want to move them out to their own option at some point, so they didn't compete with normal civics, which would be pretty nice.

[pisskop]

Post Apocolyptic grants you 70% tomb world habitability.  Thats in addition to your own native habitability.

Better still is the spawned trait 'tomb world preference', which grants a whopping 80% to tomb worlds and 60% to every other world; but it seems that only primitives will get it.  Though there are those special systems; the double tomb world one where two humanoids bombed each other and the one where 10 or so small tomb worlds spawn over several systems.

All boons.  Plus these primitives are obviously hands down the best slaves and stock for modifications.

[Trekkin]

That's part of why I specified "start only" as opposed to "unswappable." I'm somewhat more okay with being a Fanatic Purifier or Rogue Servitor or something as a civic since their effects are permanent, but it seems silly that "had robots early" has the same kind of cost.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

Honestly, I tend to think they don't give you enough to truly differentiate a species. Precisely why I go with the ethics expanded that doubles your options and increases your points to 5, an increase to 10 trait picks maximum (no default trait point bonuses, but with repeatable tech to get more trait points.  Makes bio-ascension worth something as a bonus) with additional traits mods, and double the amount of civics you can have at the start along with some new civics mods (would prefer five or even six, but you run out of room in civilization creation and I haven't found a mod to expand those menus).  The collective bonuses and maluses of that increased amount of traits, ethics, and civics is enough to actually feel a difference in playstyle, while there really doesn't feel enough in the base game outside of a few specific civics.

[Paul]

Since they started introducing these permanent start civics I've been saying they need to make it a separate category. Just make a starting option and balance them all against a normal start. Maybe separate some of the bonuses into civics that you start with if you have them, but keep the civics changeable in-game.

[Telgin]

Honestly, I tend to think they don't give you enough to truly differentiate a species. Precisely why I go with the ethics expanded that doubles your options and increases your points to 5, an increase to 10 trait picks maximum (no default trait point bonuses, but with repeatable tech to get more trait points.  Makes bio-ascension worth something as a bonus) with additional traits mods, and double the amount of civics you can have at the start along with some new civics mods (would prefer five or even six, but you run out of room in civilization creation and I haven't found a mod to expand those menus).  The collective bonuses and maluses of that increased amount of traits, ethics, and civics is enough to actually feel a difference in playstyle, while there really doesn't feel enough in the base game outside of a few specific civics.

Agreed there.  So far I've played pacifist materialists, militarist materialists, inward perfectionist xenophobes, authoritarian pacifists and now life-seeded democratic pacifist materialists, and every play through except the life-seeded one felt remarkably similar.  That one is mostly different because of the lack of colonization.  The inward perfectionist empire probably should have played differently from the others, but I rarely engage in diplomacy anyway, so it didn't.

The bonus percentages for most civics, traits and ethics don't produce a change you can seriously feel in most cases.  Playing as a spiritualist probably does feel pretty different from materialists though, with the robot ban and shroud mechanics, but I haven't tried that yet.  Nor have I tried a machine empire or any flavor assimilator or exterminator, which I'm sure do feel substantially different.

In any case, new dev diary today.  We finally got to see what stability is, what amenities are for and how crime works.  Having to provide amenities for your population makes them feel a tiny bit more alive, and I'm curious to see how different government types interact with the new crime system.  Ultimately, it looks like it boils down to a more nuanced version of the old happiness system where different government types can choose to maintain stability in their own way, which is nice.

[Cruxador]

The devouring swarm maintains its "bypass internal mechanics" nature, but it seems machine empires don't. We'll know more about that next dev diary, though. The stuff in this one seems... Fine. Uninspiring but still, and improvement.

The link: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-123-planetary-rework-part-3-of-4.1116917/&sdpDevPosts=1

[forsaken1111]

This is pretty typical of Paradox when they rework a major system. Rip out the old, reuse as much as makes sense, make it work at a basic level then later add details and complexity

[Cruxador]

This is pretty typical of Paradox when they rework a major system. Rip out the old, reuse as much as makes sense, make it work at a basic level then later add details and complexity

All of Stellaris has been waiting on the "later" since launch, though.