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Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 680950 times)

Whivy

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7485 on: December 11, 2018, 04:08:19 am »

I see you all having multiple AI problems, especially in sector managements, but on my side things are going pretty much ok (IA is building thing, declaring war, etc...). I have the gladius AI mod tho, maybe it helps a lot compared to the vanilla AI ?
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Criptfeind

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7486 on: December 11, 2018, 08:40:43 am »

Yeah, unsurprisingly the mod to make AI better makes AI better.

I'll say, even if the AI mod is pretty good (no idea if it is, having not tried it myself, but I'd hope so) the basic state of the AI is really unacceptable, mods shouldn't have to add even basic functionality to the game.
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Telgin

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7487 on: December 11, 2018, 09:53:43 am »

Members on Paradox's forums seem to agree that Glavius(?)'s mod does make the AI work much better even in 2.2.  It's kind of funny, since I have no idea what a modder could change that would make the AI work better than what the developers already do.  My guess is that the mod must give the AI some kinds of cheats, since if it's just adjusting build weights or other mod adjustable parameters, the developers would quickly adjust their own numbers to be closer to it.  I'm pretty sure I saw something about at least one AI mod giving the AI instant troop transports to get around the "bombarding a planet for 50 years" bug, for example.

In my unmodded game, I was at first thinking that the AI was working okay, but now that I'm past the mid game I see that it's not.  There's been one early war, plus lots of insults, rivalries and other diplomatic actions between the AI actors, but by 2320 it looks like the biggest fleet is mine at around 5K fleet power.  Not sure if it's just the alloy shortage to blame either, since according to the score screen my empire has about twice the economic power of the next best empire, and over four times the research points.  Those aren't limited by alloys.  This is on captain difficulty, so the AI has some cheats to boost its economy, but not like grand admiral.

Unrelated to that, but I'm not sure that the droid and synthetics upgrades are working now.  I know something was changed related to this, but after researching both techs, nothing seems to have changed.  I still have "robotic worker" pops instead of synthetics.  Do the robots just get a production bonus now?  I also don't seem to have any increase in consumer goods or housing after researching it either, despite also giving AI citizen rights, and the robots' species rights say they're still under servitude.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7488 on: December 11, 2018, 10:13:08 am »

Unrelated to that, but I'm not sure that the droid and synthetics upgrades are working now.  I know something was changed related to this, but after researching both techs, nothing seems to have changed.  I still have "robotic worker" pops instead of synthetics.  Do the robots just get a production bonus now?  I also don't seem to have any increase in consumer goods or housing after researching it either, despite also giving AI citizen rights, and the robots' species rights say they're still under servitude.
If you read the description for the techs carefully, they work differently now. Each upgrade allows the same robotic pops to work higher-tier jobs (worker->specialist->ruler). They don't get any more productive.
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Telgin

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7489 on: December 11, 2018, 10:32:24 am »

Interesting.  I'll have to recheck my pop worker distribution when I get home then.

I'm probably missing something, but that feels like it almost makes droids and synthetics useless techs unless you plan to go for the synthetic ascension route, because I mostly build robots to fill the lowest worker stratum jobs anyway.  I assume droids can still colonize, so that's one benefit, and you can resettle them to work important jobs on other planets if in a pinch I suppose.
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Kot

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7490 on: December 11, 2018, 11:04:43 am »

I believe there's bunch of various AI bugs. One of most noticeable ones is apparently Precinct spam where they just rack up insane numbers of cops, throwing a big log into the wheels of any criminal corporations, but at the same time shooting themselves in the foot. I wouldn't be surprised if, thanks to Paradox Coding, the mods just get rid of some stupid things that make them just spam buildings like that and the core is actually working.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7491 on: December 11, 2018, 11:38:11 am »

Members on Paradox's forums seem to agree that Glavius(?)'s mod does make the AI work much better even in 2.2.  It's kind of funny, since I have no idea what a modder could change that would make the AI work better than what the developers already do.  My guess is that the mod must give the AI some kinds of cheats, since if it's just adjusting build weights or other mod adjustable parameters, the developers would quickly adjust their own numbers to be closer to it.  I'm pretty sure I saw something about at least one AI mod giving the AI instant troop transports to get around the "bombarding a planet for 50 years" bug, for example.

I honestly think this is giving way too much credit to paradox devs and/or not enough to the modders. I find it fully believable that the paradox devs simply don't actually play test the game to the point where some stuff (not everything obviously, but quite a bit) can be fixed with weighting. I mean, clearly QA is so lackluster that that's possible, otherwise the game would have never reached this terrible of state.
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umiman

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7492 on: December 11, 2018, 12:01:36 pm »

The best part is if you want to mod your game you have to surrender achievements.

I will never understand this mentality of theirs.

So while I do my achievement hunts I can't fix the AI. Yay. Thanks Paradox.

-------

You know I've written multiple page-spanning rants on this update and every time I keep deleting it because I want to spare you guys from having to read it. Suffice to say I really, really don't like this "update". I think all it does is add nonsense busywork, is shallower than a thin veneer of rock slime, and puts everything on slow motion while Wiz et al. still can't figure out what they want to do with their lives.

Majestic7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7493 on: December 11, 2018, 12:07:33 pm »

AI mods "fix" the AI by creating events and scrips which force AI to do "sensible" things. For example, they spawn fleets and spawn buildings on planets or make the AI dismantle useless buildings. Most of them don't cheat as such, because the reduct the appropriate amount of resources when spawning those etc. But they are still a crutch and not an actual fix.
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Paul

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7494 on: December 11, 2018, 12:17:10 pm »

The modding achievement thing is why I have so few achievements lol. I would rather have a fun game than get useless achievements. I do the stuff for the achievements on ironman sometimes as a challenge but my game is usually modded.
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Telgin

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7495 on: December 11, 2018, 12:31:37 pm »

I kind of hate that mods break achievements too, and don't really get the mindset either.  It's not like the achievements even matter in any practical sense.  Really annoying that even portrait mods disable achievements.

AI mods "fix" the AI by creating events and scrips which force AI to do "sensible" things. For example, they spawn fleets and spawn buildings on planets or make the AI dismantle useless buildings. Most of them don't cheat as such, because the reduct the appropriate amount of resources when spawning those etc. But they are still a crutch and not an actual fix.

That makes more sense, and also helps to explain why the devs haven't just taken the same approach.  I imagine any attempts to fix the AI are done at a lower level so that it makes better decisions in the first place, but clearly that's not working out.

I really don't think they tested the update as much as they should have, and the unexpectedly early release date probably has something to do with that.  From what it looks like, they probably used the dev clash and other internal multiplayer sessions to do most of their testing, so problems with the AI were probably missed.  Not that it's any excuse, of course.
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Ispil

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7496 on: December 11, 2018, 12:41:08 pm »

Mods disable achievements because achievements themselves are just handled in-script.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7497 on: December 11, 2018, 12:55:39 pm »

Cities skylines has a mod that re-enabled achievements when mods are active. I wonder if it's possible in Stellaris.

Still, achievements are only good for bragging rights and all-too-easy to get with certain mods, so I understand the reason even if I don't agree with it.
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umiman

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7498 on: December 11, 2018, 12:55:46 pm »

Mods disable achievements because achievements themselves are just handled in-script.
No, mods disable achievements because the devs of this game put a check in their game that goes...

"oh you're using some mods? Imma gonna disable your achievements real quick. Wouldn't want you to cheat in our broken-ass unfinished game for singleplayer trophies that have no meaning to anyone but yourself"

Most normal, sane devs can't be bothered to go through the extra steps to cockblock their own playerbase like that.

You can still earn achievements in modded games in Stellaris, but that involves memory editing the game so it thinks an unmodded ironman game is running. If you do that you can earn achievements even with mods.

Ispil

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7499 on: December 11, 2018, 01:03:55 pm »

Mods disable achievements because achievements themselves are just handled in-script.
No, mods disable achievements because the devs of this game put a check in their game that goes...

"oh you're using some mods? Imma gonna disable your achievements real quick. Wouldn't want you to cheat in our broken-ass unfinished game for singleplayer trophies that have no meaning to anyone but yourself"

Most normal, sane devs can't be bothered to go through the extra steps to cockblock their own playerbase like that.

You can still earn achievements in modded games in Stellaris, but that involves memory editing the game so it thinks an unmodded ironman game is running. If you do that you can earn achievements even with mods.
I mean as a motivation as to why they disable achievements due to mods. Because they were too damn lazy to design achievements not in script in the first place.
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"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire

"I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."- Voltaire

I transcribe things, too.
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