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Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 1658956 times)

Sartain

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8460 on: March 15, 2020, 12:11:25 am »

One of the things that ground combat is sorely lacking is different unit types. I mean even Master of Orion had that  ::)
To make ground combat meaningful I'd say you'd need at least 3-6 basic unit types (infantry, armor, navy, air, engineering etc) maybe with a few subtypes (light/heavy, fighter/bomber, recon and so on) and these units should have different strengths and weaknesses against the different types and on various theatres of war (navy good for ocean, not so good for mountains for example). On top of that, the tech units (xenomorphs, space marines, psy-warriors and so on) should have noticeable strengths (say xenomorphs go through infantry like butter) but also some drawbacks. And of course unsual empires like gestalts, plants, lithoids and such could also have unique unit types. You could even tie some of them to civics.
Of course, we don't want some silly RTS in our Stellaris but if they instead looked to how CK2 and EU4 handles combat and sieges, and develop a meaningful "campaign mode" (as I've already tried to describe previously), well I would at least be stoked about it  :D
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8461 on: March 15, 2020, 12:33:42 am »

That's not the direction I'd want to go with it.  Yeah MoO2 had tanks+battlebots, but that was a simple system that mostly gave a defensive bonus to empires who'd lost space combat.  Very similar to planetary shielding, I'd say.

The existing system of collateral damage in return for efficiency is better.  I don't want to manage 5 army types, I want to choose the type of war I'm aiming for.  Will I sacrifice the planet's infrastructure for victory, equipping everyone with fusion rifles which punch holes in buildings?  Or will my troops take the field as glorious liberators, shooting incapacitating shock/gel rounds?   Suffering for their less lethal but also less lethal ammunition?
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8462 on: March 15, 2020, 06:54:15 am »

Hold on. Somebody actually ever cared about how much collateral damage they are causing when invading?
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forsaken1111

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8463 on: March 15, 2020, 07:22:33 am »

Hold on. Somebody actually ever cared about how much collateral damage they are causing when invading?
I do when I'm trying to capture a planet mostly intact. Pops are valuable, and infrastructure I don't destroy is stuff I don't have to rebuild.
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Sartain

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8464 on: March 15, 2020, 07:46:27 am »

That's not the direction I'd want to go with it.  Yeah MoO2 had tanks+battlebots, but that was a simple system that mostly gave a defensive bonus to empires who'd lost space combat.  Very similar to planetary shielding, I'd say.

The existing system of collateral damage in return for efficiency is better.  I don't want to manage 5 army types, I want to choose the type of war I'm aiming for.  Will I sacrifice the planet's infrastructure for victory, equipping everyone with fusion rifles which punch holes in buildings?  Or will my troops take the field as glorious liberators, shooting incapacitating shock/gel rounds?   Suffering for their less lethal but also less lethal ammunition?

Well that was actually also part of my idea. I mean I know it's probably never going to happen, but having to buy from a few different army types instead of just the one we have currently, and giving them meaningful difference in terms of how they impact the invasions they're part of through precisely stuff like collateral damage and also stuff like advantage against certain units and terrain bonuses would go a long way to make ground combat a lot more meaningful. You could even bring back the unit attachments feature and make something relevant of it, it's more that the numbers need tweaking more than inventing an entirely new system, as far as I can tell at least.
I realise my idea probably sounds overly complex for most people's tastes but what I'm really just suggesting is a system that mixes something similar to the unit system of CK2 (multiple units with various performance adjustments and tactics that mostly work 'under the hood') with an enhanced mix-up version of the EU4 siege system combined with Stellaris archeological system.

I imagine it going something like this:
- Produce an army from whatever combined arms solution you have access to and feel is appropriate. As usual except the number of options is larger than 1 and unit stats will be relevant.
- Hire/Appoint a general to said army, as usual, except more unit types, tactics and terrain features means more possible talents that are relevant.
- Send army to invade planet as usual, except instead of a quickie-battle and then you're done Planetary Invasion is a semi-automated protracted campaign that rolls a lot of dice 'behind the screen' with modifier dependent on attacker vs. defender army composition, unit bonuses/maluses in regards to terrain and vs. specific unit types, planetary defenses and features and of course general vs. general level and talents. You can also choose/change what sort of campaign you're doing(scorched earth, genocide, civilian regard, etc) dependent on empire/ethics/policies/general talents/unit types present/etc.
- Conquering an entire planet will take a while! The Invasion rolls for progress once every so often (weekly, bi-weekly, monthly tick?) and depending on level of success or failure, the attacker conquers part of the planet and now controls, and units take attrition damage for the campaign + buildings, districts and populace suffer from collateral damage. If needed, attacker and defender can land more units on the planet to support the invasion or defense.
- As a planetary invasion conquers territory the invader takes control of the buildings and districts of the planet and gain access to their resource output + options for interacting with the populace conquered so far. This lets some empire types purge/assimilate/enslave/whatever pops in a war before ending the war and claiming planets. Should maybe be at a reduced rate as compared to the regular version and require some form of resource payment.
- Once a planet is 100% conquered it acts much like it does in the current game design, except as noted above, and except the fact that a military presence is required to keep invasion rate at 100%, prevent potential insurgencies and maintain any sort of interaction with the populace.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 07:59:59 am by Sartain »
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E. Albright

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8465 on: March 15, 2020, 10:30:19 am »

The existing system of collateral damage in return for efficiency is better.  I don't want to manage 5 army types, I want to choose the type of war I'm aiming for.

You could look at Endless Space's take on this, where you don't manually manage different troop types but rather manage global troop type proportions, so you're not determining that X infantry and Y armor and Z aircraft will invade, but instead invading armies will be made up of X% infantry, etc., possibly with certain army types by their nature not allowing for certain troop types in their formations.
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8466 on: March 17, 2020, 03:58:43 pm »

So, Federations is out :D

I decided a UNE first run would be appropriate (especially without owning the DLC origins).  Amusingly enough I spawned right next to the Commonwealth of Man :D  The envoy system made it surprisingly easy to be their friend (plus they don't feel xenophobia toward fellow humans).  I worked up to a defensive pact with them, but then also with a Xenophilic Military Commissariat.  They rivaled each other (making both of them resent me) but envoys let me stay friends with both...  Until In 2222 I went ahead and formed the The Federation (sic).  The Commonwealth of Man can grow up if they want to join, I prefer my clubs with aliens :P  (I desperately need some Arid ones, every alien I've met likes oceans so far)

The The Federation was initially losing XP due to low cohesion, despite it being the generic Federation type which has less penalty for diverse ethics.  Apparently cohesion starts low, and takes hits when people join.  Assigning 2 envoys (and my partner assigning 1) was enough to pull it to 100% cohesion in about 4 years, maximizing the rate of XP gain.  Now it looks like I can pull my envoys to other tasks, though I think that there's a cohesion penalty if you pull all of them...

I'm sure this is obvious to people who followed the dev diaries, but our new The Federation isn't more than an exclusive defensive pact yet.  It takes 120 months of max-cohesion to reach Level 2 I guess, which is when the really basic stuff gets unlocked for *voting on*.  Stuff like having any federation fleet at all.  So many options, though!  And some of these level-up bonuses like +1 envoy look really great!  Or uh, hilariously awful like "+1 unity per envoy assigned to federation".  woo, +3 unity ~30 years in... I'll take +1 influence instead thanks.  Ooh although that latter bonus is only for the current president, as opposed to +10% speed for all members.  Eee I'm excited!

And I... think this is non-DLC content?  I went ahead and got the DLC mid-game because I like the envoy system, and I know I want certain things like Voidborn start.  I think anybody can form a generic-style Galactic Union federation like this one.

Edit: The tiny amounts of bonus unity gain are particularly odd when you can apparently build multiple Autochthon monuments per planet now??  I had to resist an urge to go Easter-Island and tank my economy.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 04:02:50 pm by Rolan7 »
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She/they
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Quote from: Fallen London, one Unthinkable Hope
This one didn't want to be who they was. On the Surface – it was a dull, unconsidered sadness. But everything changed. Which implied everything could change.

Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8467 on: March 17, 2020, 05:39:38 pm »

Keep us posted on your specific experience with Federation! The + to influence sounds nice to me, I'm a bit starved in my current game.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8468 on: March 18, 2020, 09:37:37 am »

On-release Bugs are present. Like events firing for non-compliant government types (and e.g. giving your hive drones ethics). Maybe wait until the first patch if you're thinking of buying this one.

For game-specific experiences after a few hours of playing, early game seems much easier now with the envoys. Where before, more often than not, you had to jump through hoops to make that overwhelmingly powerful and unfriendly neighbour not to steamroll you, now you can just plonk your envoys at them and shortly after you're BFFs. The modifiers from ethics conflict or border friction are almost an afterthought.
This might be a good thing in the long run, since it's clearly facilitating the federations-centred play over going it alone - but it does change the dynamics and challenges one might have been used to.

Most of the origins likewise make the game easier by providing unique or not-so unique benefits. On the other hand, other empires have those too, so on average everyone has it a bit easier. Seems to me.
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Cruxador

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8469 on: March 18, 2020, 10:14:11 am »

On-release Bugs are present.
As we've come to expect from Stellaris.

Quote
For game-specific experiences after a few hours of playing, early game seems much easier now with the envoys [...] Most of the origins likewise make the game easier by providing unique or not-so unique benefits. On the other hand, other empires have those too, so on average everyone has it a bit easier. Seems to me.
Although to my knowledge they've never confirmed this officially, I'm pretty sure they always balance new stuff to be powerful enough that it changes the focus of the game. This encourages people to play with the new stuff and interact with altered parts of the game, which is beneficial both in that it allows Paradox to get more relevant feedback and because it focuses people on exactly the part of the game that the DLC works with, encouraging sales. It'll usually be dialed back a bit in the following patch.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8470 on: March 18, 2020, 02:53:25 pm »

Saw a report of a guy who voted to make himself the only permanent council member, then voted to make the council size 1.

There were 14 other members.

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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
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FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

Cruxador

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8471 on: March 18, 2020, 03:56:34 pm »

Saw a report of a guy who voted to make himself the only permanent council member, then voted to make the council size 1.

There were 14 other members.


I haven't played Stellaris since the new patch, so I don't know if the federation code could even allow this, but that situation ought to instead shift you to a hegemony.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8472 on: March 18, 2020, 05:09:50 pm »

The guy screenshotted it, I don't have it handy but yes this actually happened in Stellaris.
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
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FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

Cruxador

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8473 on: March 18, 2020, 07:51:35 pm »

The guy screenshotted it, I don't have it handy but yes this actually happened in Stellaris.
He screenshotted that it turned into a hegemony from another type? Because that was the part I was doubting the possibility of, not what you described.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #8474 on: March 18, 2020, 07:58:11 pm »

The guy screenshotted it, I don't have it handy but yes this actually happened in Stellaris.
He screenshotted that it turned into a hegemony from another type? Because that was the part I was doubting the possibility of, not what you described.

Oh. yes, just that it happened.

You'd think it would become a hegemony though, yes.
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FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0
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