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Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 1214430 times)

Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7695 on: December 31, 2018, 01:55:49 pm »

Hm. Well Minerals were basically a catch-all for "Any sort of material resource" before. A matter replicator could make sense on a habitat, it could be used to create all kind of material goods.

Now they have alloys and more-directly-useful strategic resources for that sort of thing, and minerals are exactly that, raw natural materials.
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E. Albright

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7696 on: December 31, 2018, 08:59:31 pm »

I'd qualify that as "any sort of non-organic material resource that doesn't act as fuel".
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7697 on: January 01, 2019, 01:03:09 pm »

To me the point of the mineral/alloy separation is that you no longer have to directly choose between civilian expansion and military expansion.  In previous versions if you had a giant mineral output to make ships and you got to the point where no faction could attack you, you could turn around and put that entire mineral output into civilian production.  The result was snowballing.

Now military and civilian production are separate resources; you can't just cancel all your alloy production and put the minerals into research habitats, because you won't have the consumer goods to support all those researchers.  Also because defensive and offensive production are slightly separate now, and upgrading costs so many alloys, if you just cease military production completely you'll fall behind faster than you would in the past.  But of course since alloys can't be used for most civilian purposes there's no incentive to stop military production any more.

Overall I really like what they did with the resources because its much more clear what they mean.  Have a lot of unity?  You'll reach a midgame peak faster because traditions don't require any kind of upkeep, but fall off later once you have 4+ traditions groups done.  Have a lot of influence?  You can grow your borders fast.  Have an excess of civilian goods?  That means you can expand your civilian economy.  Huge amount of alloys?  No point having that if you're going to play passively.  The end result is that now having certain ethics or choosing to produce certain resources is making a much more specific statement about your future.  My main complaint is that the current state of research makes the anti-snowball stuff pretty useless.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7698 on: January 02, 2019, 01:36:45 pm »

I do tend to get way, way ahead in research, thereby resulting in winning every war with ease.

Granted it's a deliberate strategy on my part.
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dennislp3

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7699 on: January 04, 2019, 09:05:18 pm »

So I didn't realize it before....but I found an insane combo

Tomb World start + fanatic purifiers. To get even more silly throw in adaptable and you literally colonize every planet (but I understand they will fix tomb world starts having high habitability on all planet types)

With armageddon bombardment you can turn worlds into tomb worlds which means if you see an enemy planet with a ton of slots you can just bomb it into a tomb world and you are good to go.

Take the ascension perk that allows raiding if you want to steal some of their pops for unity first.
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ZeroGravitas

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7700 on: January 04, 2019, 09:27:44 pm »

Oh, that's a neat combo. I'd love to try that but I need to get that Pacifist achievement first.
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7701 on: January 07, 2019, 12:35:21 am »

There's something that still confuses me a little:  The "special projects" which spawn while surveying systems.  I don't see any mechanical difference between them and anomalies, except that they require more clicks.

Anomaly:  Click one button to either dedicate the science ship to the digression, or leave it for later if you're surveying as fast as possible.

Special project: Pause, bring up the situation log.  If you're fast enough, the science ship is still "present", and you can activate the special project.  Otherwise you go to the system, leave the system, select the nearby science ship, right click the special project.

I sorta see some value in it switching up the early survey game... but through meaningless UI busywork.  I feel like I'm missing something.  Maybe they're timed?
Edit:  But the case which prompted this is a 3 billion year old skeleton so probably not timed.  Why is this not just an anomaly?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 12:36:53 am by Rolan7 »
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Trekkin

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7702 on: January 07, 2019, 12:50:59 am »

There's something that still confuses me a little:  The "special projects" which spawn while surveying systems.  I don't see any mechanical difference between them and anomalies, except that they require more clicks.

Anomaly:  Click one button to either dedicate the science ship to the digression, or leave it for later if you're surveying as fast as possible.

Special project: Pause, bring up the situation log.  If you're fast enough, the science ship is still "present", and you can activate the special project.  Otherwise you go to the system, leave the system, select the nearby science ship, right click the special project.

I sorta see some value in it switching up the early survey game... but through meaningless UI busywork.  I feel like I'm missing something.  Maybe they're timed?
Edit:  But the case which prompted this is a 3 billion year old skeleton so probably not timed.  Why is this not just an anomaly?

I think they're handled differently by the events system. Anomalies, as far as I know, have one step and can only require a science ship; anything more complicated is a special project. I vaguely recall seeing some special projects that default to having a single step, like anomalies, if your empire doesn't meet the conditions to explore them further, so maybe that accounts for the similarities you're seeing.
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ZeroGravitas

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7703 on: January 07, 2019, 08:29:38 am »

There's something that still confuses me a little:  The "special projects" which spawn while surveying systems.  I don't see any mechanical difference between them and anomalies, except that they require more clicks.

Anomaly:  Click one button to either dedicate the science ship to the digression, or leave it for later if you're surveying as fast as possible.

Special project: Pause, bring up the situation log.  If you're fast enough, the science ship is still "present", and you can activate the special project.  Otherwise you go to the system, leave the system, select the nearby science ship, right click the special project.

I sorta see some value in it switching up the early survey game... but through meaningless UI busywork.  I feel like I'm missing something.  Maybe they're timed?
Edit:  But the case which prompted this is a 3 billion year old skeleton so probably not timed.  Why is this not just an anomaly?

I think they're handled differently by the events system. Anomalies, as far as I know, have one step and can only require a science ship; anything more complicated is a special project. I vaguely recall seeing some special projects that default to having a single step, like anomalies, if your empire doesn't meet the conditions to explore them further, so maybe that accounts for the similarities you're seeing.

yes they are literally handled by different systems

the question is why. it's just another typical paradox design decision. adds nothing to the game but makes everything more fiddly.
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Telgin

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7704 on: January 07, 2019, 09:54:34 am »

I've been wondering about this for a while myself, and my guess is that many things that are special projects could be made into anomalies.  Special projects are probably needed for anything with multiple steps, anything that requires research investment or which generate or follow event chains, but I'm pretty confident there are some special projects that don't meet those criteria.  Maybe some that have been changed over the years but used to need those features.

I'd like to see any special project that only requires a science ship in orbit to be changed to anomalies where possible, since I agree that it's a real hassle to pause the game, go to the system with the ship,  click the ship, then ctrl+shift+right click and select the research option every time one of them pops up.



Unrelated to the above, but what's the highest fleet power any of you have ever achieved in a defensive station, without mods?  I've been seeing how far I can push them with the new strategic coordination center, and since you can get up to 40 defense platforms on a single citadel with it, you can get some pretty high numbers.  I've got four bastions at about 172K fleet power right now at 2445 and hope to get to over 200K by 2500.  Up to 22-23 levels of repeatables on relevant techs right now.

It's probably academic since I'm pretty sure the station would take painfully high losses from the defense platforms in any serious fight, but it's fun to look at the numbers.  It's also murderously expensive in alloys so I'd never do this against human opponents.  Upkeep is pretty insane too, and it looks like defense platforms do cost (a small) alloy upkeep, where they didn't have mineral upkeep in 2.1 from what I recall.
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dennislp3

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7705 on: January 07, 2019, 12:21:49 pm »

Anomolies become special projects. Anomolies are randomly generated and give random results. Sometimes those random results are special projects which are actual events as opposed to anomolies.

As for stations...~200k seems to be the upper limits for them barring any repeating techs

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Paul

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7706 on: January 07, 2019, 05:27:16 pm »

I always thought that was dumb too. Some of the special projects are literally just an extra delay for the science ship. No extra choices or special requirements, just the science ship has to be told to spend another few months researching it. Why not just up the anomaly difficulty so that it takes more time and slap whatever the end bonus is onto the anomaly in the first place and save us the extra tedium? It makes sense in some cases where it's like it needs a construction ship or a 5 skill scientist to look into it, but many of them are pointless.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7707 on: January 07, 2019, 06:49:32 pm »

It makes more sense with the chains like the worm or precursors, but yeah things like the gigantic skeleton and whatnot are annoying, because i have to figure out where the hell my science vessel is, click it, cancel it's whole chain of commands, and manually tell it to look into it.
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Culise

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7708 on: January 07, 2019, 07:37:50 pm »

I think the only reason is because of scientist skill thresholds - anomalies don't have a hard limit, but special projects can.  That and the fact that even with the removal of the failure states, anomaly levels are still tied (when combined with scientist skill) to investigation time, so adding more time to an anomaly would require adding more difficulty, though that's probably not nearly as big of a reason outside of the really long projects like Russell's Teapot (which does offer a choice, and is thus not especially germane).  I wouldn't mind if they went back and reworked it to either give more options or just integrate those one-path projects into the anomaly proper, but I do understand that it's probably not the highest priority right now. 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 07:40:39 pm by Culise »
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Telgin

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7709 on: January 08, 2019, 12:02:04 am »

The scientist skill thresholds are a valid reason, but I suspect those are actually just holdovers from back when anomalies had effective skill thresholds.  Probably an unimportant thing to rebalance or change at this point, especially when things like 2/3rds of the crises are broken.  Just got the box art troop transports for the Contingency and decided to shelve that save until it's fixed.  Maybe this week, but it took like 2 weeks just to fix the pathfinding bug for them last time.

Also managed to get a defense station up to 211K fleet power in 2475 or so with 30 levels of repeatable techs.  I'll find out how they fare against the Contingency once the crises get fixed.
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