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Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 668556 times)

Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7800 on: February 03, 2019, 12:19:13 pm »

I get sick of having insufficient minerals, so I started a new game as a hivemind so I can eventually mine entire planets as much as I want.  But I mainly want to play with the economy, so I'm a nice hivemind that wants to respect borders and be nice (:

Two neighbors bully me for no reason ):  Declare war without any claims, simply humiliate me.  I can't really stop them (because I'm expanding at a breakneck pace in other directions) so eventually I surrender, and make less drones for a while because I'm sad  :'(

Then I meet the United Nations of Earth.  They're all about making friends and protecting people!  But their federation-friend thinks I'm gross, so I can't join their club.  Forever alone...

But then one of the bullies conquers a mean devouring swarm, which makes them a "mutual threat" for me and the federation-friend.  Just +1, but enough.  Now I'm a federation associate and basically won the game, as I can work on my economy-optimization in peace, guarded by the Auspicious League.  I'm definitely going to be a full member, eventually.  I set the crisis timers waaaay early this time, so it's really good that a strong federation has already formed.

Oh, and my race is Thoraxians, like from The Last Federation, so I'm pretty pleased at how things played out.  A hive mind joining a federation for protection, and being a very useful if quirky team player (:
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7801 on: February 03, 2019, 02:10:44 pm »

But they taste like chicken ):

Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7802 on: February 03, 2019, 02:29:18 pm »

One of the bullies attacked me again *anyway*, and in stomping them, I acquired several nice alpine planets.  Pretty nice considering that the nearest cold planets I'd found were 5 jumps from my homeworld, much less alpine planets.

What I didn't realize was that captured xenos default to "livestock".  Oops.  After an awkward moment (xenophages aren't popular, especially with xenophiles like the Federation) we switched to the much more woke policy of shipping the xenos into deep space.  And now I'm a full member of the Federation :D

The bully and half-eaten bully are fricken terrified, trying to scrabble together defensive pacts of their own with minor powers, but the galaxy's basically secure until the crises.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7803 on: February 03, 2019, 02:43:01 pm »

I do like the idea of a hive mind's drones beginning to eat a populace before the main hive mind realises what's going on

"Sssssorryyyy, weeeee aaarrrrre neeew toooo feeedeeratioonnn, will not eeaaat neew frieeend (:"
Several million Yax'kalockians stare in horror as the drones help them pack up their luggage for an extragalactic voyage

Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7804 on: February 03, 2019, 03:00:32 pm »

That's how I was picturing it too hehe, maybe with the speaker-drone slowly lowering a lump of sapient fungoid before apologizing.

Protip, though:  Apparently displacement IS considered genocide, now, with all the diplomatic penalties that entails.  Triggered after a couple months once the pops started disappearing.  Sorta makes sense, but it's just a significant change (apparently new to 2.2).

What makes less sense:  The penalty for keeping aliums as livestock was *far* less severe.  Like -25 or -50, instead of stacking up to -300 in some cases.  Despite giving them no rights and eating them on an industrial scale.

Sigh...  Apparently I need the Evolution Mastery ascension to "integrate" alien-friends peacefully.  By uh...  absorbing their free will into the collective.  That's apparently a lot more acceptable.  I hope at *least* the egalitarians have a problem with it...  But meh, I don't plan to invade any more planets anyway.

(If I understand this correctly: I might as well be condensing them into nutrient-cubes, or cutting them down in the streets, it's the same "genocide" as letting them leave.  But farming is tolerable, and meat-puppets might be okay)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 03:03:44 pm by Rolan7 »
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7805 on: February 03, 2019, 03:41:23 pm »

IIRC displacement in this game kills the vast majority of displaced pops, presumably from them not surviving the journey.  Plus it is destroying another culture.  The missing bit of the game's logic is that enslaving is also destroying another culture so... not really any different and obviously much more brutal.  I guess if you keep the people as livestock the xenophiles could theoretically come liberate them and give them their intact planet back, so its better than killing them outright... but presumably you'd be liberating their descendants in this case.

It seems like you should have the option of giving the survivors of the bombardment however many districts of housing as a nature reserve for sentients.  Even if its a totally useless option it would still be less jarring than a "cooperative" hive mind being forced to commit genocide.

Edit: For that matter, a xenophile civ should be able to donate captured drones to other hive minds so they don't have to be killed, or return them to the original hive mind if it still exists
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7806 on: February 03, 2019, 04:05:53 pm »

A good suggestion I saw to avoid genocide is to subjugate instead of conquer.  I could even release the sector in question as a vassal (Only possible when there are non-hive pops living there!) which would presumably be pretty loyal and cooperative.

The in-universe justification for forced-purging is that hive-drones aren't smart enough to tolerate "others", and automatically react as if to an infection... or something to digest.

As for displacement, it's obviously an atrocity.  Even if all the displaced find new homes in accepting nations like the United Nations of Earth, which I *think* is happening.  Just... seems like a different tier of atrocity than literal deathcamps or farms. 

Speaking of, the United Nations of Earth tried to kick me out of the federation as the "Genocidal" modifier grew to -618.  The other federation member voted no, since they only had a -153 Genocide modifier, for a net of +67 after trust and mutual rivalries.

The kicker:  The United Nations of Earth left their own federation in disgust.  It's kinda sad but also pretty funny.  Ugh, I would have released the sector if I'd known it was an option (though I'm pretty sure all the drones would die off).  At this point they've almost all been relocated, anyway.

(Not that the citizens should be punished for their government's choices, but the nation did attack *me* without provocation.  I'm set to defensive wars only, and didn't bombard.)
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Majestic7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7807 on: February 03, 2019, 04:41:31 pm »

If you do biological ascension, you can modify non-hive populations into becoming part of the hive mind. So that is another option to genocide.

Join the Many, be greater than just an individual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POYgUfr9XeI

Edit: Oops, didn't notice it was already discussed. Well, I'll leave the post up anyway, for the glory of the Many.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 04:45:09 pm by Majestic7 »
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Egan_BW

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7808 on: February 04, 2019, 11:28:04 am »

I really think it should be possible for some hive minds to be chill enough to co-exist with non-hive pops. All my pops in your space are collectively one citizen of your egalitarian xenophile empire, all your pops in my space are just honored guests on my private property, we're all good.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7809 on: February 04, 2019, 07:12:08 pm »

That would be rad, but remember that in-context you'd be running two separate civs on one planet. The implication is that hive-mind civ's everything (housing, industry, etc) is geared towards a hive mind. A non-hive pop wouldn't be able to function.

That said, it would be cool to have some kind of hive-minded modifier for a pop that wasn't a civ-wide thing. A partial hive-mind sort of thing you could genetically engineer into a species that provides more minor bonuses. Would be good flavor stuff.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7810 on: February 04, 2019, 07:46:32 pm »

I don't think it'd be very hard to justify, tell the hive mind that if parts of it are going to exist in another person space, that part needs to contribute just like everyone else. Bam, hive mind pops integrated. War with the hive mind would of course, cause issues. Probably make them all criminals instantly.

Of course, even deeper then that, systems to intermix different empires, having less clear lines between species and empire and between separate empires would be cool. It was where I was hoping stellaris would go, when it was first announced. But it'd probably be a very different game.
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7811 on: February 04, 2019, 07:52:00 pm »

Oh that reminds me of a cute thing: leftover civilian industry buildings can be worked by "artisan drones", with their own tooltip, making consumer goods which are only sellable. Same with culture buildings, which make unity IIRC. You can't build the buildings though.

I think they're left over from pre-2.2.  Like the "resource reprocessors" on captured starbases. They're still renamed trade posts like before 2.2, but are actually useless since they only collect trade now. The appropriate replacement would be solar panels, but I understand why that isn't automatic.

Really they should be auto-destroyed, or clearly marked as unusable. Or leave them as resource reprocessors, but make them actually do something again.

I like the minor touch that starbase solar panels need an unshielded star to be built.  I don't think multiples help, sadly (space empires 4 did that).
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Flying Dice

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7812 on: February 05, 2019, 08:49:01 pm »

A good suggestion I saw to avoid genocide is to subjugate instead of conquer.  I could even release the sector in question as a vassal (Only possible when there are non-hive pops living there!) which would presumably be pretty loyal and cooperative.

The in-universe justification for forced-purging is that hive-drones aren't smart enough to tolerate "others", and automatically react as if to an infection... or something to digest.

As for displacement, it's obviously an atrocity.  Even if all the displaced find new homes in accepting nations like the United Nations of Earth, which I *think* is happening.  Just... seems like a different tier of atrocity than literal deathcamps or farms. 

Speaking of, the United Nations of Earth tried to kick me out of the federation as the "Genocidal" modifier grew to -618.  The other federation member voted no, since they only had a -153 Genocide modifier, for a net of +67 after trust and mutual rivalries.

The kicker:  The United Nations of Earth left their own federation in disgust.  It's kinda sad but also pretty funny.  Ugh, I would have released the sector if I'd known it was an option (though I'm pretty sure all the drones would die off).  At this point they've almost all been relocated, anyway.

(Not that the citizens should be punished for their government's choices, but the nation did attack *me* without provocation.  I'm set to defensive wars only, and didn't bombard.)

TBH it seems like the displacement option is less "send the refugees somewhere else" and more "Trail of Tears but more so".
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7813 on: February 06, 2019, 12:27:59 pm »

My interpretation of refugees in Stellaris is that they use outdated/broken shapeships and overcrowd them.  Probably buying obsolete versions of those freighters that are invisibly ferrying our minerals around all the time, and putting people in the cargo holds.  Since presumably the galaxy doesn't have enough transportation infrastructure to handle billions of people suddenly needing to be at another planet.
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7814 on: February 06, 2019, 12:35:03 pm »

If only there were a way to send pops to those empires which really want them.  Maybe even sell the pops...

*desire for Megacorp intensifies*
(But I absolutely refuse until I at *least* make it to an end-game crisis)
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