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Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 1229471 times)

LoSboccacc

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7755 on: February 03, 2019, 03:38:29 am »



You build a station in every system now, it's part of the big changes in in 2.0 that happened about a year ago. Most of them you leave as tiny zero sized stations, only upgrading to real stations at important places or when you need certain modulus.


weird. so ai's stations don't show up on the map?

anyway, that's hard I'm always on some energy deficit of sort, even placing stations only on stuff that has some sun I can mine for energy it's hard to get some balance.

oh, where do I see a planet max pop? I'm trying to figure out how many city sector are needed for each production sector but I can't find the info
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Mini

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7756 on: February 03, 2019, 06:06:27 am »

There is no longer a cap on how many pops you can have on a planet, it all depends on how much housing and how many jobs you can get on that planet. In terms of having city districts for agri/mining/gen districts, the production districts also provide some housing capacity so it depends on what buildings you are putting on the planet and how much housing your pops actually need. Building districts also causes more sprawl (or whatever it's called now), increasing your tech/unity costs, so only building the ones you will be using in the direct future instead of filling up your planets immediately when you settle them is a good idea.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7757 on: February 03, 2019, 07:25:06 am »

weird. so ai's stations don't show up on the map?

t0 stations that aren't in inhabited systems don't show up on the galaxy map, no. Look at the image you posted, your own stations also are not on that map in three out of five systems (only showing up in Kerbol both because that's an upgraded station and an inhabited system, and Ruthauri because it's an inhabited system.) It's also important to note that t0 stations don't count against your starbase cap.

anyway, that's hard I'm always on some energy deficit of sort, even placing stations only on stuff that has some sun I can mine for energy it's hard to get some balance.

A t0 station only costs one energy upkeep, which is pretty rare for systems in general to not pay for themselves, looking at the image you posted and at all the surrounding systems that you've explored there is 12 explored unclaimed systems, with a total of eighteen energy. If you take everything you'll have a surplus of 6 energy and however many other resources you mine as well.

oh, where do I see a planet max pop? I'm trying to figure out how many city sector are needed for each production sector but I can't find the info

To expand on Minis answer: You have two limitations on how much pop you can have, both are soft caps, but if you go over them your population will become unhappy and growth speed will be reduced, at first small amounts to both, eventually enough that they should stop growing but also probably be somewhat unhappy. Both of them are in the info box in the bottom leftish of the planet screen, how many you have, and how many you need.

The first is housing, which is pretty self explanatory for what it is. Pops use  different amounts of housing depending on their social class, but in general you need about 1 housing per population. City districts provide 5 housing, each resource gathering district provides 1 housing.

The second is Jobs. Which are basically the slots you have on the planet for the pops to work in. The city district provides 1 not so good job, and the resource gathering districts provide 2 jobs.

So as you can see from the numbers, normally a certain balance of city districts, for more housing, and resource gathering districts (generator, mining, and farming districts) are needed, when you need more jobs for your pops, build a resource gathering district, normally of the type of whatever base resource you are low on. When you need more housing, build a city district.

In addition to this, every 5 population on a planet unlocks a building slot (up to 16 slots unlocked by 80 population). Most buildings give more jobs, and importantly, they give more advanced jobs that do more then just gather basic resources. Artisans, who turn minerals into consumer goods that you population uses as upkeep (like they do food) metallurgists, who turn minerals into alloys that you use to build space thing (such as warships or starbases), entertainers who turn consumer goods into amenities (which you need to keep the pops on the planet happy) and researchers that turn consumer goods into research (which you need to... research) all come from buildings. There's also a building option to increase your housing (and give some amenities) if you need it.

Most jobs from buildings are also considered a higher class of worker then jobs from districts, so they require more upkeep and their happiness counts more towards the stability of the planet (stability being essentially what replaces individual pop bonuses from happiness that were in previously, now you can have unhappy pops, but if the stability is high, they still get bonuses)

Buildings can also be upgraded eventually, although that costs both a large one time payment and an ongoing upkeep cost in rare resources, but then they offer more jobs per building slot. This can be useful, or not, depending on how your empire is set up.

So in general, you have to use a mix of districts to build up the base production of your planet, and then you can add buildings for more advanced production when you need it, at first you'll generally use buildings for pop upkeep in consumer goods and amenities, but eventually you'll get free slots and enough housing and a big enough economy to put in more metallurgists and researchers, who will help you advance your empire either militarily or technologically.
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7758 on: February 03, 2019, 12:19:13 pm »

I get sick of having insufficient minerals, so I started a new game as a hivemind so I can eventually mine entire planets as much as I want.  But I mainly want to play with the economy, so I'm a nice hivemind that wants to respect borders and be nice (:

Two neighbors bully me for no reason ):  Declare war without any claims, simply humiliate me.  I can't really stop them (because I'm expanding at a breakneck pace in other directions) so eventually I surrender, and make less drones for a while because I'm sad  :'(

Then I meet the United Nations of Earth.  They're all about making friends and protecting people!  But their federation-friend thinks I'm gross, so I can't join their club.  Forever alone...

But then one of the bullies conquers a mean devouring swarm, which makes them a "mutual threat" for me and the federation-friend.  Just +1, but enough.  Now I'm a federation associate and basically won the game, as I can work on my economy-optimization in peace, guarded by the Auspicious League.  I'm definitely going to be a full member, eventually.  I set the crisis timers waaaay early this time, so it's really good that a strong federation has already formed.

Oh, and my race is Thoraxians, like from The Last Federation, so I'm pretty pleased at how things played out.  A hive mind joining a federation for protection, and being a very useful if quirky team player (:
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7759 on: February 03, 2019, 02:10:44 pm »

But they taste like chicken ):

Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7760 on: February 03, 2019, 02:29:18 pm »

One of the bullies attacked me again *anyway*, and in stomping them, I acquired several nice alpine planets.  Pretty nice considering that the nearest cold planets I'd found were 5 jumps from my homeworld, much less alpine planets.

What I didn't realize was that captured xenos default to "livestock".  Oops.  After an awkward moment (xenophages aren't popular, especially with xenophiles like the Federation) we switched to the much more woke policy of shipping the xenos into deep space.  And now I'm a full member of the Federation :D

The bully and half-eaten bully are fricken terrified, trying to scrabble together defensive pacts of their own with minor powers, but the galaxy's basically secure until the crises.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7761 on: February 03, 2019, 02:43:01 pm »

I do like the idea of a hive mind's drones beginning to eat a populace before the main hive mind realises what's going on

"Sssssorryyyy, weeeee aaarrrrre neeew toooo feeedeeratioonnn, will not eeaaat neew frieeend (:"
Several million Yax'kalockians stare in horror as the drones help them pack up their luggage for an extragalactic voyage

Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7762 on: February 03, 2019, 03:00:32 pm »

That's how I was picturing it too hehe, maybe with the speaker-drone slowly lowering a lump of sapient fungoid before apologizing.

Protip, though:  Apparently displacement IS considered genocide, now, with all the diplomatic penalties that entails.  Triggered after a couple months once the pops started disappearing.  Sorta makes sense, but it's just a significant change (apparently new to 2.2).

What makes less sense:  The penalty for keeping aliums as livestock was *far* less severe.  Like -25 or -50, instead of stacking up to -300 in some cases.  Despite giving them no rights and eating them on an industrial scale.

Sigh...  Apparently I need the Evolution Mastery ascension to "integrate" alien-friends peacefully.  By uh...  absorbing their free will into the collective.  That's apparently a lot more acceptable.  I hope at *least* the egalitarians have a problem with it...  But meh, I don't plan to invade any more planets anyway.

(If I understand this correctly: I might as well be condensing them into nutrient-cubes, or cutting them down in the streets, it's the same "genocide" as letting them leave.  But farming is tolerable, and meat-puppets might be okay)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 03:03:44 pm by Rolan7 »
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EnigmaticHat

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7763 on: February 03, 2019, 03:41:23 pm »

IIRC displacement in this game kills the vast majority of displaced pops, presumably from them not surviving the journey.  Plus it is destroying another culture.  The missing bit of the game's logic is that enslaving is also destroying another culture so... not really any different and obviously much more brutal.  I guess if you keep the people as livestock the xenophiles could theoretically come liberate them and give them their intact planet back, so its better than killing them outright... but presumably you'd be liberating their descendants in this case.

It seems like you should have the option of giving the survivors of the bombardment however many districts of housing as a nature reserve for sentients.  Even if its a totally useless option it would still be less jarring than a "cooperative" hive mind being forced to commit genocide.

Edit: For that matter, a xenophile civ should be able to donate captured drones to other hive minds so they don't have to be killed, or return them to the original hive mind if it still exists
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7764 on: February 03, 2019, 04:05:53 pm »

A good suggestion I saw to avoid genocide is to subjugate instead of conquer.  I could even release the sector in question as a vassal (Only possible when there are non-hive pops living there!) which would presumably be pretty loyal and cooperative.

The in-universe justification for forced-purging is that hive-drones aren't smart enough to tolerate "others", and automatically react as if to an infection... or something to digest.

As for displacement, it's obviously an atrocity.  Even if all the displaced find new homes in accepting nations like the United Nations of Earth, which I *think* is happening.  Just... seems like a different tier of atrocity than literal deathcamps or farms. 

Speaking of, the United Nations of Earth tried to kick me out of the federation as the "Genocidal" modifier grew to -618.  The other federation member voted no, since they only had a -153 Genocide modifier, for a net of +67 after trust and mutual rivalries.

The kicker:  The United Nations of Earth left their own federation in disgust.  It's kinda sad but also pretty funny.  Ugh, I would have released the sector if I'd known it was an option (though I'm pretty sure all the drones would die off).  At this point they've almost all been relocated, anyway.

(Not that the citizens should be punished for their government's choices, but the nation did attack *me* without provocation.  I'm set to defensive wars only, and didn't bombard.)
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Majestic7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7765 on: February 03, 2019, 04:41:31 pm »

If you do biological ascension, you can modify non-hive populations into becoming part of the hive mind. So that is another option to genocide.

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Edit: Oops, didn't notice it was already discussed. Well, I'll leave the post up anyway, for the glory of the Many.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 04:45:09 pm by Majestic7 »
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Egan_BW

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7766 on: February 04, 2019, 11:28:04 am »

I really think it should be possible for some hive minds to be chill enough to co-exist with non-hive pops. All my pops in your space are collectively one citizen of your egalitarian xenophile empire, all your pops in my space are just honored guests on my private property, we're all good.
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7767 on: February 04, 2019, 07:12:08 pm »

That would be rad, but remember that in-context you'd be running two separate civs on one planet. The implication is that hive-mind civ's everything (housing, industry, etc) is geared towards a hive mind. A non-hive pop wouldn't be able to function.

That said, it would be cool to have some kind of hive-minded modifier for a pop that wasn't a civ-wide thing. A partial hive-mind sort of thing you could genetically engineer into a species that provides more minor bonuses. Would be good flavor stuff.
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Criptfeind

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7768 on: February 04, 2019, 07:46:32 pm »

I don't think it'd be very hard to justify, tell the hive mind that if parts of it are going to exist in another person space, that part needs to contribute just like everyone else. Bam, hive mind pops integrated. War with the hive mind would of course, cause issues. Probably make them all criminals instantly.

Of course, even deeper then that, systems to intermix different empires, having less clear lines between species and empire and between separate empires would be cool. It was where I was hoping stellaris would go, when it was first announced. But it'd probably be a very different game.
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Rolan7

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Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7769 on: February 04, 2019, 07:52:00 pm »

Oh that reminds me of a cute thing: leftover civilian industry buildings can be worked by "artisan drones", with their own tooltip, making consumer goods which are only sellable. Same with culture buildings, which make unity IIRC. You can't build the buildings though.

I think they're left over from pre-2.2.  Like the "resource reprocessors" on captured starbases. They're still renamed trade posts like before 2.2, but are actually useless since they only collect trade now. The appropriate replacement would be solar panels, but I understand why that isn't automatic.

Really they should be auto-destroyed, or clearly marked as unusable. Or leave them as resource reprocessors, but make them actually do something again.

I like the minor touch that starbase solar panels need an unshielded star to be built.  I don't think multiples help, sadly (space empires 4 did that).
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