Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 520 521 [522] 523 524 ... 557

Author Topic: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE  (Read 669113 times)

Sartain

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7815 on: February 07, 2019, 05:18:56 am »

A good suggestion I saw to avoid genocide is to subjugate instead of conquer.  I could even release the sector in question as a vassal (Only possible when there are non-hive pops living there!) which would presumably be pretty loyal and cooperative.

The in-universe justification for forced-purging is that hive-drones aren't smart enough to tolerate "others", and automatically react as if to an infection... or something to digest.

As for displacement, it's obviously an atrocity.  Even if all the displaced find new homes in accepting nations like the United Nations of Earth, which I *think* is happening.  Just... seems like a different tier of atrocity than literal deathcamps or farms. 

Speaking of, the United Nations of Earth tried to kick me out of the federation as the "Genocidal" modifier grew to -618.  The other federation member voted no, since they only had a -153 Genocide modifier, for a net of +67 after trust and mutual rivalries.

The kicker:  The United Nations of Earth left their own federation in disgust.  It's kinda sad but also pretty funny.  Ugh, I would have released the sector if I'd known it was an option (though I'm pretty sure all the drones would die off).  At this point they've almost all been relocated, anyway.

(Not that the citizens should be punished for their government's choices, but the nation did attack *me* without provocation.  I'm set to defensive wars only, and didn't bombard.)

TBH it seems like the displacement option is less "send the refugees somewhere else" and more "Trail of Tears but more so".

I've always seen it more as a situation where the undesirables are displaced to the fringes of their current society, thus being unable to sustain themselves by anything other than base scavenging in ruins and wastelands, slowly dying out. The pops that migrate are the few lucky ones that manage to get out, the rest suffer and die in the toxic wastelands/slag deserts/whatever of their parent planet.
But I suppose I never did read the tooltip...
Logged

E. Albright

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7816 on: February 07, 2019, 02:17:15 pm »

You could also assume that some of the refugees are emigrating à la The Marching Morons rather than via traditional methods...
Logged

Dorsidwarf

  • Bay Watcher
  • [INTERSTELLAR]
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7817 on: February 07, 2019, 09:04:09 pm »

Maybe hive minds who are friendly with lots of other species should be able to set non-hive pops in empire to a living status something akin to bio-trophies. “Hive Resident” or something, where they don’t really grow and they aren’t very happy and they don’t produce much, but they’re alive and not being told they have three weeks to leave or be eaten.
Logged
Quote from: LW
One of these days we will succeed in deporting all Scandinavians back to Somalia
Quote from: Rodney Ootkins
Everything is going to be alright

Trekkin

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7818 on: February 07, 2019, 10:08:51 pm »

Maybe hive minds who are friendly with lots of other species should be able to set non-hive pops in empire to a living status something akin to bio-trophies. “Hive Resident” or something, where they don’t really grow and they aren’t very happy and they don’t produce much, but they’re alive and not being told they have three weeks to leave or be eaten.

A more general option for leaving physiologically incompatible pops alone would certainly be nice. I can see a rationale for locking it behind research to either build a mini-Hive Mind for the drones or mark the non-Hive Minded with "do not eat" pheromones, but not for it just being totally impossible.
Logged

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • they/them
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7819 on: February 07, 2019, 10:34:13 pm »

As a reminder, it *is* possible to dedicate certain worlds to the cacophonous individuals, then "release" those worlds as a reasonably loyal vassal.  They can't co-exist on the same planet, but they can still co-exist.

Making vassals really isn't so bad, in my experience.  I'm sure it's unoptimal, but it's hardly suicidal once you've established yourself.  Less busy-work, too.

Then again I still haven't reached the end-game yet.  I love Paradox games, including the mid, but I always get the urge to try a different situation before I get to the "endgame".
Logged

Criptfeind

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7820 on: February 08, 2019, 06:51:07 am »

When hiveminds were first announced I was quite excited, and wanted very much to play as a friendly Xenophilic hivemind in my first game as one. Was very disappointed when it came out that friendly cool hiveminds are basically impossible and you can really only play at best a sorta galactic unpopular kid, who sits at the edges of other groups wishing they could fit in better as the other groups mostly ignore you and only let you into their cool kids club in dire circumstances.

Maybe hive minds who are friendly with lots of other species should be able to set non-hive pops in empire to a living status something akin to bio-trophies. “Hive Resident” or something, where they don’t really grow and they aren’t very happy and they don’t produce much, but they’re alive and not being told they have three weeks to leave or be eaten.

There's a mod that allows this, expanded hiveminds or something. It's even better then the rogue servitors, because you can choose what you allow the multiminded to do. Do you pamper and control them like a servitor where they do nothing but you get unity, do you let them work as research assistants, their strange and simple but many minds helping you come up with new avenues to explore (and replace that unity with research) do you allow them to volunteer for some of the less dangerous posts in the military (military bonuses) or do you essentially let them live as normal citizens with normal jobs (so long as those jobs aren't too dangerous.) and then they work the tile like a normal pop. It was a pretty cool mod, not sure if it was updated for 2.2
Logged

Sime

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7821 on: February 08, 2019, 09:46:52 am »

I notice that the game is  75% off  again, but the steam review page is just a red wall of down-thumbs.    Will they make stellaris great again?
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7822 on: February 08, 2019, 10:03:23 am »

I notice that the game is  75% off  again, but the steam review page is just a red wall of down-thumbs.    Will they make stellaris great again?
Give it a few years maybe, PI have been turning away lots of customers recently, even for ones that haven't even come out yet like Imperator. Then you have ones like CK2 holy fury doing pretty well... Hard to say really. PI are disappointing but still hold a tight grip on the grand strategy map painting market so they've got time to turn things around in a commercial alexiad

Telgin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Professional Programmer
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7823 on: February 08, 2019, 10:15:32 am »

Yeah, I'm fairly new to Stellaris and Paradox as a whole, but Stellaris's last patch was rightly controversial given how clearly broken and unready so much of it was.  From what I've gathered, this isn't new, so it's little wonder that people are becoming increasingly skeptical of the quality of their games.  The developers effectively admitted that they were forced to release it because marketing told them the date was set in stone.  That's a dangerous way to do business.

And then the newest patch reintroduced precinct house spam and they've yet to get the AI to build a functional economy in 2.2.

I have no interest in Imperator, but if I did, I absolutely wouldn't buy it until after I'd read a lot of reviews.  To be fair, I never preorder anything and always wait to read reviews after buying a couple of other very disappointing AAA titles on launch day, but I'd be extra skeptical of anything new from Paradox.
Logged
Success requires no explanation.  Failure allows none.

Criptfeind

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7824 on: February 08, 2019, 11:27:56 am »

Will they make stellaris great again?

In short: I don't think so.

Right now stellaris is broken as fuck in many ways. I think they are capable of fixing the worst of the bugs and outright broken features, except maybe AI, which was bad when stellaris started and is worse today, that might be a "bug" or "obviously broken feature" that won't ever get fixed. Assuming they step back from the endless treadmill of dlc on top of dlc and actually fix the fucking game for once, there's hope for the bugs and stuff. But even if all the bugs and outright broken things are fixed, the game will still be bad. Simply put a lot of the implementation of core ideas is trash. Trade, population, jobs. There's just so many ideas in stellaris that are okay or even good ideas, but the way they've been made is unfun and sorta shit to actually play. (imo of course...). A lot of these issues would be easy enough to fix, probably easier then fixing the AI. But I no longer hold any hope that they will actually be fixed.

Well, I guess I hold one hope. Martin seemed pretty arrogant, and I didn't really have much hope that he'd ever go back and fix unbroken but just bad game design he made. Now that he's no longer the lead on stellaris maybe whoever replaces him will be able to reflect on all the bad decisions made and change them for the better. But, yeah, total crapshoot. We'll see I guess.
Logged

Teneb

  • Bay Watcher
  • Make birds speedrun again
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7825 on: February 08, 2019, 11:36:39 am »

Well, I guess I hold one hope. Martin seemed pretty arrogant, and I didn't really have much hope that he'd ever go back and fix unbroken but just bad game design he made. Now that he's no longer the lead on stellaris maybe whoever replaces him will be able to reflect on all the bad decisions made and change them for the better. But, yeah, total crapshoot. We'll see I guess.
Considering Martin himself unmade a lot of the design decisions of his predecessor, it's not without precedent. There is hope, but dunno if it will happen.

At least we can hope they un-fuck the implementation of the various ideas.
Logged
Monstrous Manual: D&D in DF
Quote from: Tack
What if “slammed in the ass by dead philosophers” is actually the thing which will progress our culture to the next step?
Quote from: Loud Whispers
Does a Laconian believe they descend from Achilles? Does an anon believe a greentext happened? Does a child believe in air? We choose the fake news we want. The eternal memri.tv

Telgin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Professional Programmer
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7826 on: February 08, 2019, 11:37:23 am »

Pop growth mechanics with multiple species are a good example of that, I think.  People called it out during the dev diaries as being kind of stupid, and sure enough, on release it was pretty stupid.  Daniel (I think that's his name) seems to agree that it could work better, so maybe it'll be changed at some point.  The last patch changed some weights for it, but that's never going to address the fundamental issues.
Logged
Success requires no explanation.  Failure allows none.

Telgin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Professional Programmer
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7827 on: February 13, 2019, 10:41:25 pm »

Double post, but whatever.

I just tried out the new pop growth mechanics with a diverse empire, and yep, they're kind of stupid.  Much worse than I expected, even in 2.2.5.  Life-seed + multiple species = terrible idea.  Since you have 0% habilitability on most planets, your species gets outcompeted in every case, so it never gets chosen to grow anywhere but your homeworld.  Worse, it appears that it also causes them to enter decline for some reason.  I actually don't know if that's intended or just a bug, but I quit that game once I signed the migration treaty and saw what happened.

It was just as well, since I'd screwed up a few other things.  Life-seeded + Utopian Abundance + anything not a gaia world = recipe for consumer goods hell.  I expected it to merely be a challenge, but the deficit was so severe I could never hope to maintain it early to mid game.  It's kind of a waste there anyway.
Logged
Success requires no explanation.  Failure allows none.

Cruxador

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7828 on: February 13, 2019, 10:49:03 pm »

I mean, a race at zero habitability declining as soon as there's competition doesn't seem like a broken system to me.
Logged

Telgin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Professional Programmer
    • View Profile
Re: Stellaris: Paradox Interactive IN SPACE
« Reply #7829 on: February 13, 2019, 10:59:35 pm »

If this was without technology or whatever, sure.  It's just weird that in a space faring society with enough food to go around, having competition causes a species to begin dying off.  The other species should grow faster, absolutely, but that's kind of going a bit far.
Logged
Success requires no explanation.  Failure allows none.
Pages: 1 ... 520 521 [522] 523 524 ... 557