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Author Topic: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06] - Breadbowl Ends  (Read 234386 times)

TheFlame52

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #810 on: June 09, 2016, 06:04:44 pm »

Sometime after mine, which is next. I can't wait for my turn either.

NCommander

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #811 on: June 09, 2016, 08:05:24 pm »

OOC: I played through the rest of the last turn and looped around to Spring. I'll begin my turn proper now

Overseers Log 01-01-245



Spring has arrived. The bird are singing. The smokeis rolling in.





Ok, two out three ain't bad. Winter came and passed without incident. Dreging continues for the marine traps, but just enough water is getting in to make life annoying. A new solution will be found. As winter bore on, I drastically increased our honey making capabilities.



With luck, we'll soon have mead and royal jelly lining the stockroom.



We also met the Elven lumber limit with two to spare.

I also assigned the Watcher's an archery range to help them increase their skills. Already this has begun to pay dividends.





Aside from a gremlin, the caverns have remained quiet.




As such, I've reopened them to line them with cage traps, in the hope of catching jabberers or something similar.

I don't think there is much that can go wrong

---
01-02-245

IT'S ALL GONE TO SHIT!



The goblins appartantly decided we were monopolizing the bees and decided to invade. WHERE WAS THAT SMOKE WHEN I NEEDED YOU!



And they brought company.




Fortunately, Breadbowl was designed with a defense mechanism in mind to help lure goblins into our barrack to prevent them from becoming a true problem. After consulting the Fortress Operating Manual, I had the apropiarte levers pulled, and waited.



And waited.

Why are the goblins going south ...

$#!@

---
01-03-245

Today I learned why you don't let axedwarfs design your marine life catcher. A hole had been knocked in one of the retaining walls to allow the marine trench to be built. Unfortunately, it wasn't properly rebuilt due to incompatible on yours truly.

Realizing my folly, I order the watchers up to the overlook, and rally the squad to intercept the goblins near the moat drain.



Bolts quickly go flying back and forth, right up until one of the goblins climbs up the tree, jumps over the fortifications, and lands in one of the animal pens.

With the Shafts of Fortifying out of position, and nothing stopping a goblin from having clean line of site on most of our civilian population, the watchers charge after him.




Japa goes to engage, but quickly gets bolted to the wall.



However, Japa gave an opening, and an unknown dwarf scored a direct headshot and put the errant goblin down. Meanwhile, LordBrassroast has taken total leave of his senses, and ran right into the field of goblins. I thought I heard him shout "LEEROY JENKINS!" right before he ran over the hill.



I suppose the amazing thing is he didn't immediately die despite every goblin opening fire on him at once.

Seeing their chances for glory, Imic charges in after him.



As the Watchers give them cover fire, I order the rest of the military in. It's now or never folks.



---
01-05-2015

In the end, we won. Five are dead. A planter who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, Imic, Brownedeyedfairy, and LordBrassroast  are dead, as well as another watcher who's name I'm unaware of. I will have them interned in the temple as heroes.

My attention now turns towards fortifying our military, finishing the marine ditch, and the year ahead.
Logged
Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

TheFlame52

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #812 on: June 09, 2016, 08:47:16 pm »

However, Japa gave an opening, and an unknown dwarf scored a direct headshot and put the errant goblin down. Meanwhile, LordBrassroast has taken total leave of his senses, and ran right into the field of goblins. I thought I heard him shout "LEEROY JENKINS!" right before he ran over the hill.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh my god he just ran in.

NCommander

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #813 on: June 09, 2016, 08:59:26 pm »

Sometime after mine, which is next. I can't wait for my turn either.

I'm (usually) pretty quick at turning my turns. I already played through five months in about two days RL (not counting the upgrade debate). I have one major thing I want to really do then I'll be happy.

That being said, today was long and tiring, and tomorrow is looking like it will be too. (I actuallyed played this bit this morning, but couldn't be bothered to write the update until I got home. This covers pretty much all of winter in an update)

EDIT: Second note, I haven't edited the raws or anything to make the DF 42.06 features fully usable. I'm not convinced I've got the bugs out of the upgrades yet. I may not find time to do this before I finish my fort.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 09:09:53 pm by NCommander »
Logged
Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

Sanctume

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #814 on: June 09, 2016, 09:53:24 pm »

I'm sadden and full of guilt at the demise of The Wild Child, Imic. 
All those times among the profane smoke, The Wild Child's nightmares are finally over.

NCommander

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #815 on: June 10, 2016, 09:51:49 am »

I'm sadden and full of guilt at the demise of The Wild Child, Imic. 
All those times among the profane smoke, The Wild Child's nightmares are finally over.

If its any consolation, my avatar bit the dust before he made it to the hospital (he died in route). Fortunately, it turns out I cleared the siege quickly enough that the elven caravan and diplomat actually made it onto the map.The downside is it turns out I screwed up the production orders, and our outbound harvests are pathetic for spring. On the upside, I found we weren't using fertizer, so our future harvests will get stupidly big (you can feed 200 dwarves with a 3x3 farm plot with a legendary grower and potash. You end up with 2000+ prepared meal stacks, and 50-70+ booze stacks).
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Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

NCommander

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #816 on: June 10, 2016, 10:12:23 am »

I won't be able to write an update until tonight, but here's a summary:

A dragon showed up. I'm trying to catch it. Most of the fort is on fire.
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Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

Sanctume

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #817 on: June 10, 2016, 11:41:46 am »

I think our bottleneck is food containers, are the glass pots in full magma production?

From the last bean counting estimates, we need like 60k per year to feed the entire civ, that's why we modestly up the mandate to around 6k as a goal.

Ooooh, so that dragon is no longer asleep.  No longer the "Silent Hill" then

Gwolfski

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #818 on: June 10, 2016, 11:43:21 am »

I think our bottleneck is food containers, are the glass pots in full magma production?

From the last bean counting estimates, we need like 60k per year to feed the entire civ, that's why we modestly up the mandate to around 6k as a goal.

Ooooh, so that dragon is no longer asleep.  No longer the "Silent Hill" then

Totally ignoring the fact that everybody is about to !!DIE!!
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why kill elves if you could torture them, make them betray their friends, denounce their "force", make them watch trees being chopped down, feed them meat and throw them in magma as a sacrifice for almighty Armok?

Eventually when you go far enough the insane start becoming the sane

NCommander

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #819 on: June 10, 2016, 12:26:26 pm »

I think our bottleneck is food containers, are the glass pots in full magma production?

From the last bean counting estimates, we need like 60k per year to feed the entire civ, that's why we modestly up the mandate to around 6k as a goal.

Ooooh, so that dragon is no longer asleep.  No longer the "Silent Hill" then

Yeah, lack of pots is basically what happened. We have a ton at the bottom of the moat where the caravan sank, and they're showing up on the stocks screen which confused the heck out of me. Since the moat is (slowly) evaporating, I should be able to retrieve them by summer and properly ship them out. Right now, I'm in full production mode towards metal to get more of the fort armored up. Given I've just been FBed, seiged, and then dragoned, I'm honestly expecting the game to go all out, and have the humans suddenly declare war. This is karma for getting slightly bored over winter.

Anway, on pots. The fort ran out due to all them being traded, and all the brew jobs auto-canceled which I didn't notice. For production, the trick is to make the stacks as large as possible. Normally, fertilizer is kinda a pain to use unless you use workflow to make it on the fly, or have 0.43 which basically has workflow built in, but it has an exponential effect.

Basically, in a nutshell, a single pot can hold one stack of booze or a stack of food. When you farm, fertilizer makes it that you always get at least two plants, and up to five per tile. When a grower harvests, it appears to add a multiplier on that based on skill. So, if you use fertilizer, then a legendary grower pulls the plant, you can get plant[20]. When that plant is brewed, the entire stack is multiped by five, and put into a single barrel, aka you get booze[100]. If plants have to be processed, i.e., milled and such, I think they also get multiplied if the reaction normally does it. i.e. query leaves -> bush will get you a stupid amount of plants.

For lavish meals, you get all the stacks added together. If you combine the above with allowing booze to be cooked, you're stacks will be stupid large. Unfortunately for us, Dwarvish cooking doesn't like to use non-solid ingrendents which makes this harder than it should be. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2393. Worse, cooking uses LIFO to determine what gets cooked, so basically, if you just harvested a bunch of rice, you get rice/rice/rice/rice roasts.

For pot production, I've been going with wood, but glass actually makes more sense (I usually use clay as its less fiddly than glass though). I figure as long as it actually gets exported, it doesn't matter THAT much if the elves or humans take it. Though given the basis of the fort, maybe we should remove the wood tag from the elves so we can offload it on them.

Worse however, I've noticed we've run out of seeds for a bunch of types of plants. I changed the fields to plant stuff we do have, but its irritating. I think we hit the fort seed cap, and its causing older seeds to vanish.

Incidentally, I did actually manage to catch the dragon and its female via heavy use of "EVERYONE IS A MECHANIC", and "BUILD ALL THE CAGE TRAPS NOW!". I don't expect us to get lucky enough to catch a male, but we might be able to add dragon eggs to the cooking ingredients. No !!dwarfs!! We lost a good part of our breeding stock since it rampaged through the pens before I finally got it in a cage. I haven't done the full accounting on what we lost beside all the hives in the fortress (which bought the time necessary to get it caged).

I'm debating what to do with it. Taming it is obvious, but I want to make sure it doesn't get butchered. It's only ~250 years old so its kinda small for one. If I can find a dwarf with a preference for dragons, I can get it adopted, but then I can't put it on a restraint. Though given its a BUILDINGDESTROYER:2, it might wreck whatever restraint I put it on. Megabeasts detame fast. The plus side to this is since animal trainers will always be taming it, we'll hit expert on knowledge of dragons relatively quickly, and get a legendary animal trainer or two.

If I make it a work animal (dragons can be war/hunt trained), and assign it, I believe I have the same problem. I know you can pen/pasture pets, but I don't know if they'll leave to find their owners, and the last thing we need is the dragon going off in the booze stockpile, plus once you tame it, they become TRAPAVOID due to an unrelated bug*.

I'm open to ideas here.

* - the problem is they become part of the civ when they're tamed, but when they go wild, they remain part of the civ. You can fix it by clearing out the civ_id which makes them trappable again.

EDIT: I'm checking Legends now, but I don't think this is the same dragon people are thinking about. That was a male dragon. This one is female. There might still be another male dragon near Breadbowl. Breeding program anyone?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 12:38:35 pm by NCommander »
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Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
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Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

NCommander

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #820 on: June 10, 2016, 12:50:59 pm »

Confirmed. There are two dragons, one male and one female, both near Breadbowl. We've got one. If the other shows up, we can have a dragon breeding program.





EDIT: I'm concerned that this dragon might be an enemy of our civ. If I tame her, it might be the loyality cascade bug. I can try it and DFhack the historial entities to make her work right. I'm pausing for feedback on what to do.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 12:56:32 pm by NCommander »
Logged
Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

TheFlame52

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #821 on: June 10, 2016, 01:05:06 pm »

You're a DFhack wizard, so if you can make it no longer an enemy of our civ, that would be amazing. Also, don't war train it or assign it or make it available, that could cause problems if it detames. If you chain it, it won't destroy the chain as long as it's tamed. Don't let any visitors see it, they'll try to kill it.

NCommander

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #822 on: June 10, 2016, 01:43:39 pm »

You're a DFhack wizard, so if you can make it no longer an enemy of our civ, that would be amazing. Also, don't war train it or assign it or make it available, that could cause problems if it detames. If you chain it, it won't destroy the chain as long as it's tamed. Don't let any visitors see it, they'll try to kill it.

When I got lunch, I thought about this. Actually, the reason you can restrain them is because BUIDLINGDESTROYERs can't destroy anything that they're directly next to, and they have to be next to something for a bit to actually wreck them. I think this quirk exists explicately so you can chain up dragons and other building destroyers.

As for the letting guests see it, that's an extension of the pre-existing loyalty cascade bug you get with historical figures. Basically, the game has two separate checks to see if something is hostile or not. It first checks a unit's flags if they're undead, etc, and if so, they show up as invader/opposed to life/etc.

Secondly, it checks if civ_id == your civ. If so, the unit is considered friendly. If its a merchant, it will path off the map. If a unit is intelligent, and its group_id matches your group_id, then its considered a part of your fortress. Merchants and guards are always passive as far as I can tell.

Loyalty cascades come from Toady overthinking it, and historical entities. Basically, the game checks the group to determine who gets orders on your map, not the civ. At all times, it also keeps track of who is an enemy of who. If you attack your own units, you become an enemy of your civilization, but not your group. Anything that attacks a group then becomes an enemy of that group and possibly the civ.

The "tame mount" bug happens because of possible two things:

 - they're both a member of their original civ, your civ, and your group. Basically, because the former link exists, they remain hostile. I believe this is the most common problem.
 - There is garbage in the enemy struct which is basically a cache of the above which never gets zeroed out. This is what I suspect caused the old "if it ever tasted dwarven blood" glitch back in 40d.

You can fix it by manipulating the historical links to a unit, and zeroing out the anon{7/8/9} members of the structure so they become neutral to everyone.

That being said, I haven't thoroughly scienced the above so the details are fuzzy, but this is how I got the goblin prime minster to work in Doomforests (in his case, I had to add the group/civ by hand; taming should automatically do that for me). I'm also not completely sure that this is broken; I thought someone had successfully bread dragons in post-DF2010 (when everything and their mother became a historical figure, and caused all the above).

EDIT: So I dug deeper into her structures. Her enemy struct is blanked out since she never tasted dwarven blood, so theoretically, taming and releasing her would mean she would be non-hostile to the fort. That being said, she's an enemy of "The Old Nets". The wiki suggests that since tame animals never attack their own civ, she's probably safe to tame without DFhacking unless anyone has experience with taming megabeasts/historical figures.

I dunno if the historical figure tags weigh in heavily. TheFlame52's comment suggests it does. I know they're ignored for your own fort, but guests might start a fight.

EDIT 2: She's an enemy of basically *everyone*. The enemy groups in legends mode goes on for at least five pages. I'm going to work on the writeup while people debate what we should do.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 02:01:50 pm by NCommander »
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Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

NCommander

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #823 on: June 10, 2016, 02:26:44 pm »

OOC: This is going to have to be split into two updates

Interim Overseer's Log
01-17-245
===


Sibrek Inodidash reporting in. As "NCommander"'s second in command, I'm filling in for him after his untimely demise after succumbing to injuries.



Most of our forces are well battered after this latest seige with the goblins. Defense of Breadbowl is at the point where we must expand the military or die trying. I've decided to have a barrack installed ontop of the temple (where our honored dead are being laid), and begun a recruiting drive to refill the ranks.



I've resurrected the captain of the guard position and assigned Cilob to lead it for now, turning it from a marksdwarf squad to a meele squad to component us.



As we were quick to clear out the seige, the elves managed to get through



Unfortunately, we realized at this time that not only did we have little in terms of booze to trade, we had little at all.




None the less, we shipped off as many roasts as we could, and the duke had me sit in while he attended the meeting with the elvish diplomat







He brought us news from the elves war with the goblins:



Which seems rather dated news, but I don't understand how the duke can stand to be in the same room with them calling us a butcher. After he concluded his business with us, he went to the tavern.



---

I checked in Bearskie, the broker to check on our exports/imports.



A disappointing low amount of food to send out with. We must be more careful and ramp up our production.

He was able to get a new animal for us though ... I question his sanity



and bought a load of toys for the children.



I suppose they're nice enough.

I've been told the leader of the Neighborhood Watch however has taken the recent losses rather hard ...



I will have to speak with Kogan as soon as I get a chance.

Looking deeper into our production issues, I found that we have not been using fertizier with our fields. This has been fixed as we already had produced a good number of potash bars last year.





A review of the justice system notes we're well below the number of cells for a population of this size.



I've ordered the jail to be enlarged as a result and old crimes punished a few at a time. Justice will come to Breadbowl.







The duke was very displeased on our pitiful exports, and immediately ordered us to increase our production facilities, an order I immediately relayed to the manager.



Finally, a deeper survey of the surronding rocks in the caverns have revealed the existence of a second aquifer deeper than the one in the soil levels. While NCommander's plan to build marine trenches is a solid one for increasing diversity, the ability to drain the ocean would drastically increase our ability to get work done towards. As such, I've had a miner start digging towards the ocean bed to create a "drain".



As I close this entry in the log, there appears to be some sort of celebration outside. I can see smoke from the windows ...


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Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

NCommander

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Re: Breadbowl: a Succession Farm [42.06]
« Reply #824 on: June 10, 2016, 02:55:55 pm »

Interim Overseer's Log, Continued
===


Celebration my ass. Gwolfski was sitting next to me in the noble's tower as the beast moved into view. I was about to order the military into action when he put his hand my shoulder!

"Take it alive!"

I blinked. "Alive?"

"Yes, you see! Think about the possibilities. Dragonfire is the ulitmate cooking aid. We could make an entire roast in a second. Or even make roasted strawberries. Mmmmm ..."

... I must admit, the duke scares and confuses me. Mostly confuses me though. That being said, I saw the point. I've heard legends of dragons being trainable, so I ordered the bridges raised in hope to force the beast to move somewhere where we might be able to cage it. Unfortunately for us, the order came too late ...



Damnation!

Most of our city is built out of wood, and there is no way to seal the underground from the surface. A firefight would devistate Breadbowl if we're lucky. If we're not, the entire place could burn to the ground. Fortunately, the simple minded beast got distracted by the hives.



I quickly ordered everyone to stop what they're doing, grab whatever mechanisms and cages you could, and follow me. If the beast released its terrible dragonfire, we'd have a !!fort!!.

As I tried to predict the beasts movements, squads of mechanics began laying traps across the central corridors of Breadbowl with careful use of burrowing. Several were placed near the entrance to the housing complex, another near the pens and others near the trade depot, though I could see no possibility of this ending well. One of the dwarves near me as we lay our lines couldn't stop thinking about death.



Then of course, more complications.



You guys have the worse timing. They were for the moment trapped outside as the fort was sealed seconds after the dragon crossed into Breadbowl.

The smell of bacon told us, the beast found a rent in one of the pens. Several gysers of flame shot up letting us know that the sow pen had been invaded.







As the dragon munched on the sows, a fresh team of volunteers started laying cage traps outside the pen, working quietly to try and avoid raising the beasts awareness.



Just as the mechanisms went in place, we began to hear thumping at the door. The beast could smell us, and its feast of pigs was not enough to sate it. We finished loading the traps when.



The mighty dragon blew fire at us and lunged right into a cage trap.





Success!

---

Maybe ... just noticed the cage is next to a fire, and made of wood. It depends how quickly it can be hauled away.

EDIT: Realized I had temperature disabled. I turned it back on, the cage burned up, and the dragon is loose again.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 03:06:11 pm by NCommander »
Logged
Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
Quote from: NRDL
Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )
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