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Author Topic: Harder Food Mod, in progress  (Read 8155 times)

Meph

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2015, 04:19:45 pm »

Anything with DRINK is alcoholic, even DRINK:NONE:WATER:NONE.

Quote
The HEATDAM strategy is a little wonky because of how largely uncontrollable temperature is, from my knowledge of the game.
Uncontrolled? the heatdam works perfectly fine, because its FIXED_TEMP, which means it never changes. It will always work the same way, in deserts or glaciers, no problem.

it's BUTCHER_SPECIAL:ITEM_TYPE:ITEM_SUB_TYPE. The material comes from the muscle already. INORGANIC in your example is a material type, which wont work. but you could do BUTCHER_SPECIAL:BLOCK:NONE or TOOL:ITEM_TOOL_MEAT

Havent tried myself with the edible raw/cooked and kitchen stocks, so cant help much without trying myself.
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Jazzeraint

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2015, 04:24:45 pm »

Quote
The HEATDAM strategy is a little wonky because of how largely uncontrollable temperature is, from my knowledge of the game.
Uncontrolled? the heatdam works perfectly fine, because its FIXED_TEMP, which means it never changes. It will always work the same way, in deserts or glaciers, no problem.

Ah, I didn't see that in the notes. Okay, I think I can figure that out.

Havent tried myself with the edible raw/cooked and kitchen stocks, so cant help much without trying myself.

I'll do some searches and testing.
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Meph

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2015, 07:13:17 pm »

I know that the fixed_temp stuff works very well and relyably so, because I use it for magical, temporary metals in my necromancer mode.
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Jazzeraint

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2015, 08:02:49 pm »

I know that the fixed_temp stuff works very well and relyably so, because I use it for magical, temporary metals in my necromancer mode.

I've been trying to wrap my head around having Muscle / Brain / Lungs / etc. turn into a meat product with the fixed temp / heat dam point, since adding those to the Muscle / Brain / Lung material definitions itself would make creatures fry everywhere, ja?

EDIT: Edited Muscle and its meat disintegrated within 2-3 days with the FIXTEMP & HEATDAM, but all of my creatures have yellow or red wounds across their entire bodies.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 08:15:40 pm by Jazzeraint »
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Jazzeraint

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2015, 08:08:36 pm »

Apparently changing [BUTCHER_SPECIAL] to BOULDER instead of MEAT makes the item named the same, but be made of stone and be utterly inedible.
You can make buildings out of it, though~
« Last Edit: September 14, 2015, 08:48:05 pm by Jazzeraint »
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Meph

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2015, 05:39:40 am »

Apparently changing [BUTCHER_SPECIAL] to BOULDER instead of MEAT makes the item named the same, but be made of stone and be utterly inedible.
You can make buildings out of it, though~
Sure you can :)
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
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Jazzeraint

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2015, 01:09:16 pm »

I edited the deteriorate script to differentiate by food type, and it's working like a charm for all of my food falling apart needs.

Once I figure out the stockpile issue, it'll be largely ready.
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Jazzeraint

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2015, 09:07:11 pm »

While I work that out, my next concern is food values. I want food to be expensive, but then conversely not be worth a lot to traders, since it'll logically spoil before they can get it off map.
With the possible exception of preserved foods.

Is there a way to make caravans not trade in food at all, or restrict certain types of food from being tradeable?
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Meph

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2015, 09:10:33 pm »

While I work that out, my next concern is food values. I want food to be expensive, but then conversely not be worth a lot to traders, since it'll logically spoil before they can get it off map.
With the possible exception of preserved foods.

Is there a way to make caravans not trade in food at all, or restrict certain types of food from being tradeable?
Yes, in the entity file, but it would also limit trading any other animal mat, like leather and wool, and would remove it from embark selection. So not a good choice.

Best you can do is reduce the value of materials.
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Solon64

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2015, 12:50:52 pm »

What I usually do is the honor system of never trading prepared meals.  As already well-known, prepared meals with their quality modifier get to be tremendously valuable.  Simply refusing to trade them negates their value entirely, but that's a personal thing, sort of like how I never put more than one weapon into a weapon trap as well, for personal balance reasons.

Only thing you could do is pray Toady One looks at it and writes in code to reduce their value in trade with other civs, but maintain their value when BUYING them from traders.  Frankly I don't know why everything trades at a roughly 1:1 ratio anyway; Traders are looking to make a profit off of taking you stuff, they need to buy low in order to sell high.  Perhaps in the future The Great Toad could add in a tag or two to materials, say [SELL_MOD] and [BUY_MOD], making things adjustable by modders as to the relative value to traders.  Default could be 1 for sell_mod and say, 5 or more for buy_mod, so traders sell that meat for something like 25 apiece rather than 2 but you still only sell it for 2 apiece.  This would make the relative quality modifiers for prepared meals a lot more reasonable.  May as well write in a custom tag for QUALITY_MOD for everything, so you can adjust how much quality matters to a given item.  That would give a lot of flexibility to modders.

That's actually not a bad idea for the ol' wishlist, really.  Hmm.  That said, I don't think we'll see that in the next couple of years at the rate The Toad is going, considering it's alpha and not beta, balance is not a concern at the moment.
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Jazzeraint

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2015, 01:12:53 pm »

What I usually do is the honor system of never trading prepared meals.  As already well-known, prepared meals with their quality modifier get to be tremendously valuable.  Simply refusing to trade them negates their value entirely, but that's a personal thing, sort of like how I never put more than one weapon into a weapon trap as well, for personal balance reasons.

Only thing you could do is pray Toady One looks at it and writes in code to reduce their value in trade with other civs, but maintain their value when BUYING them from traders.  Frankly I don't know why everything trades at a roughly 1:1 ratio anyway; Traders are looking to make a profit off of taking you stuff, they need to buy low in order to sell high.  Perhaps in the future The Great Toad could add in a tag or two to materials, say [SELL_MOD] and [BUY_MOD], making things adjustable by modders as to the relative value to traders.  Default could be 1 for sell_mod and say, 5 or more for buy_mod, so traders sell that meat for something like 25 apiece rather than 2 but you still only sell it for 2 apiece.  This would make the relative quality modifiers for prepared meals a lot more reasonable.  May as well write in a custom tag for QUALITY_MOD for everything, so you can adjust how much quality matters to a given item.  That would give a lot of flexibility to modders.

That's actually not a bad idea for the ol' wishlist, really.  Hmm.  That said, I don't think we'll see that in the next couple of years at the rate The Toad is going, considering it's alpha and not beta, balance is not a concern at the moment.

I like these ideas.
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Bogus

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2015, 02:53:05 pm »

my idea to make feeding dwarves harder would be to hook into the eating jobs to have them consume not 1 but many items each time, but i have no idea if that is possible. as a relativly simple alternative, hunger counters could be tempered with to make dwarves eat more often.

either way, a system of different nutritional values of foodstuffs is conceivable, such that some foods are better for feeding the hungry while others are more valuable/produce better happy thoughts and so on. this way you can have stuff like eggs be useful to quickly get your fort up and running, later you can sink more labor into producing tastier food.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2015, 02:55:40 pm by Bogus »
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Jazzeraint

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2015, 03:04:21 pm »

my idea to make feeding dwarves harder would be to hook into the eating jobs to have them consume not 1 but many items each time, but i have no idea if that is possible. as a relativly simple alternative, hunger counters could be tempered with to make dwarves eat more often.

either way, a system of different nutritional values of foodstuffs is conceivable, such that some foods are better for feeding the hungry while others are more valuable/produce better happy thoughts and so on. this way you can have stuff like eggs be useful to quickly get your fort up and running, later you can sink more labor into producing tastier food.

Aye, I've been making food-prep reactions that consume multiple reagents instead of just one. That's a lot of the mod right there.

The hunger counter isn't in the raws, which would have honestly been my first, simple easy change, because it handles things so elegantly. Alas, that's not the case.

That's definitely conceivable, but I don't see a way to implement something like that given DF's current codebase.
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Meph

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2015, 03:14:27 pm »

Hunger counter is easily altered by dfhack. Making dwarves eat/drink twice as often would be a trivial script.
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Jazzeraint

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Re: Harder Food Mod, in progress
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2015, 03:18:38 pm »

Hunger counter is easily altered by dfhack. Making dwarves eat/drink twice as often would be a trivial script.

Really? Why was I told otherwise, then. -_-;
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