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Author Topic: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!  (Read 104615 times)

Dohon

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #450 on: March 30, 2018, 01:24:38 pm »

And here's the transcript for the Campaign Game livestream. Meanwhile, there is a Youtube video of the stream.

Spoiler: Transcript (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 01:26:22 pm by Dohon »
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Hanzoku

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #451 on: March 30, 2018, 03:49:47 pm »

Gotta say, I find the Gunnery perk and mastery underwhelming. At least on the tabletop, it is almost never worth splitting your fire across multiple targets instead of guaranteeing a kill on the primary target. The mastery only working for a single weapon is also a shame. The perks as they are now, I’d take Piloting and Tactics in every pilot, with a little more to think about depending on mech and roll between Gunnery, Piloting and Guts for the mastery.

I think they’d be better off with having two options to pick from for every path - increased accuracy for one round would be a tempting gunnery perk.
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Flying Dice

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #452 on: March 30, 2018, 07:15:32 pm »

It was nice in beta for situations where you only have indirect contact with a more desirable target, so you can dump lurms onto them but still use other weapons on that 'mech to soften another target. Also for situations where you have targets in different range brackets. Not much point shooting at something with 20% hit chance, but if there's another enemy closer/farther you can split fire to maximize hit chances. Helps make mixed loads more viable on single 'mechs by increasing how much ordinance you can effectively use in a given turn, where the traditional weakness of being able to fight at any range is doing so with less impact than a specialized loadout.
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Mini

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #453 on: March 31, 2018, 01:47:20 am »

I can see a use for it in firing a single weapon at an evasive mech (to strip one of the charges) while shooting everything else at something where you will actually hit. Also if you have something with multiple large guns (an Awesome, for example) and you are fighting multiple things that would die in a single shot (light vehicles). Niche use, but that niche (at least the evasion part) comes up regularly. Similarly, the mastery is good on mechs that only have a single big weapon anyway (Hunchback's AC/20, Vindicator's PPC), but again is pretty niche.

To me the biggest benefit to upgrading gunnery is going to be the increased chance to hit anyway, so even if the abilities aren't amazing there's still the decision of whether you want your guys to be able to hit things more reliably now or leave that until later (which has the potential to make you lose battles) or upgrade gunnery and get somewhat worse abilities.
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Mephansteras

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #454 on: March 31, 2018, 10:27:55 am »

Valid point. Upgraded gunnery is very strong in its own right, skills aside.
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Flying Dice

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #455 on: April 04, 2018, 01:33:44 pm »

Also worth noting that if you go full into Gunnery you also get the skill that ignores defensive bonuses when firing a single weapon at a target.

Get a 'mech with something like a PPC, an AC/10, and a LRM10, use Multitarget, fire one per target and ignore the defensive bonuses of each. That's extra shiny.
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Rince Wind

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #456 on: April 04, 2018, 02:04:11 pm »

Or get THE mech with 3 PPCs.
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Hanzoku

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #457 on: April 04, 2018, 03:52:53 pm »

Actially, from what I gather from the Paradox forums, energy only mechs have been badly nerfed by how heat is handled in the game. Designs like the Awesome and Black Knight won’t work nearly as well out of the box as they do on tabletop.
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Kanil

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #458 on: April 04, 2018, 04:50:57 pm »

Yeah. I don't really know how this game works, but the AC/5 apparently does 9 damage. Unless they've also been buffed, lasers will suck really hard compared to that.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Rince Wind

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #459 on: April 04, 2018, 05:24:57 pm »

Damage and armor values have been changed to allow for more granularity. So the 9 doesn't say much, certainly not that it does 80% more damage than in tabletop.

And for the most part energy weapons are king in CBT. Missiles have their use, but ACs, especially the AC/2 and AC/5 are pretty bad. The AC/10 is ok, and the AC/20 is the weapon with the most damage for most of the ingame time. But they are heavy and have a rather low ammo count per ton. With special ammunition you are looking at two shots for a ton of AC/20 ammo. Ammo which can blow you to kingdom come quickly on a (un)lucky crit. Even with CASE you loose a location and get a hit to your MechWarrior. Autocannons are too heavy for what they bring to the table and for the risks associated with them. If you just use energy weapons all you need are more heatsinks.

The Hunchback 4P throws around a lot more damage than the classic 4G with its AC/20, because the medium laser is just that good.  I still love the HBK-4G more because the damage is concentrated and because it gets all the style points.

When you can mix and match regular ACs just don't make the cut if you are only looking at numbers.

So...I am entirely in favour of a rebalance to make my preferred weapon system (ok, they may be tied with SRMs) better.

What I do know is that missiles and autocannons affect stability while PPCs play havoc with the sensors of those hit by them.

We'll have to see if you can do a 3-3-2 firing pattern on an Awesome. I was never much of a Black Knight fan anyway, though I do love the Flashman (not for its looks). Things like Stormcrow Primes that can fire all their lasers on the run all day long are the most boring mechs.
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Kanil

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #460 on: April 04, 2018, 05:36:43 pm »

Damage and armor values have been changed to allow for more granularity. So the 9 doesn't say much, certainly not that it does 80% more damage than in tabletop.

Armor values were multiplied by 5. Screenshots show the AC/5 doing 45 damage, which would be 9 TT damage. It very much seems to suggest it does 80% more damage than it's tabletop counterpart.

Yes, AC/5s in TT are bad. But if the PPC is doing 50 (ie: 10) in this game, then the AC/5 is going to make the PPC look worse than the TT PPC makes the TT AC/5 look.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Rince Wind

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #461 on: April 04, 2018, 06:01:57 pm »

Ah, ok, I didn't know the exact values anymore and thought it did 9 damage ingame, my bad.

The AC/5 is (probably) still 1t heavier, without ammo. Though you can't buy enough heatsinks for the difference in damage anymore. I'd say the PPC would not be as bad as the AC/5 in tabletop in this comparison, because there you need 2 AC/5s with a combined 16t weight to do the same damage at similar ranges. And your ammo still explodes in your face.
But I think I was less than impressed by PPCs in some of the dev streams.
Well, we'll know in less than three weeks. (Fingers crossed that it runs on my toaster.)
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Kanil

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #462 on: April 04, 2018, 07:02:52 pm »

I'd say the PPC would not be as bad as the AC/5 in tabletop in this comparison, because there you need 2 AC/5s with a combined 16t weight to do the same damage at similar ranges. And your ammo still explodes in your face.

This ignores the primary strength of the AC/5 and/or primary weakness of the PPC: heat.

Two AC/5s is 16 tons + 2 heatsinks + 1 ton of ammo, totalling 19 tons for 10 damage (as two weapons, with all the advantages and disadvantages that implies.)
One PPC is 7 tons + 10 heatsinks, totalling 17 tons for 10 damage.

The AC/5 loses out here, but it's not a vast difference. It definitely needs a buff, but... 9 damage results in it doing 18 damage for 19 tons vs 10 damage for 17, and that makes the PPC look really bad.

There's a bit more to it, of course. You have 10 free heatsinks, so the first few lasers are more efficient. And the ammo still explodes, although this game is more forgiving on that front than TT, with the two crits to explode rule.

And of course, I haven't looked too closely at the game yet, so I don't know if PPCs are also good... but if you feel they don't seem that great, there's a good chance they just aren't.
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Yah, it sounds like minecraft with content, you have obviously missed the point, people dont like content, they like different coloured blocks.
Seems to work fine with my copy. As soon as I loaded the human caravan came by and the world burst into fire.

Mephansteras

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #463 on: April 04, 2018, 07:55:45 pm »

Hopefully all those beta testing games helped them out a good bit on the balancing aspect of everything.
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Hanzoku

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Re: BATTLETECH - X-COM meets ROBOTS! - Release day April 24 2018!
« Reply #464 on: April 05, 2018, 01:03:16 am »

Again from reading what other people have said, you want a (singular) PPC in your lance somewhere, because being hit by a PPC applies a -1 gunnery penalty to the mech. But overall, heavy energy weapons look to be really... bad. We'll have to see how it all feels when playing the game of course.

I do think that AC/2s and AC/5s needed some buffing. For one thing, it helps turn the JagerMech into a credible threat instead of a secondary target as it is on the TT. (I'd prioritize many Medium mechs even over a JagerMech... except for how easily it blows up, at least.)
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