Dwarf Fortress > DF Modding
Egg laying fortresses?
ThatZommy:
I've yet to start a topic, so don't expect much.
I've found that running a fortress of egg-layers is very time-consuming and complicated, so I thought it would make a good topic for discussion. I'm wondering how others have managed egg-layers, what with making sure the eggs are fertilized, dumping unfertilized eggs, making sure they aren't taken from the nest boxes prematurely, and keeping the parents nearby. This is all perfectly possible, but I've yet to find a way to manage it while also working on other projects, such as a 3x3 room with the hatchlings and a dog, or a large tube of magma leading to the surface, or the necessary badger hunting squads. This is under the assumption others have attempted to breed egg-laying citizens, of course.
To shorten that useless paragraph, how do you manage egg-laying citizens, or if you have never attempted it, what do you believe the best system would be?
Button:
I haven't done egg-laying citizens, but I've tamed egg-laying intelligent critters, so I have some experience.
There's a DFHack plugin that shows you whether or not eggs are fertilized. I highly recommend this.
I'm not sure whether your eggs will require fertilization by a spouse - the sapient egg-layers I had were all in 0.34.11, before the fertilization mechanic overhaul. They didn't need to be married, but they weren't the primary fortress race either.
You probably want to mod your race to have inedible eggs. The default AI has no qualms about cooking up eggs of intelligent species, and I suspect that they wouldn't have any problems eating the eggs of their own species, either. Also, if eggs aren't edible, they won't be gathered from nest boxes unless you explicitly dump them - win win.
The greatest causes of egg abandonment in my experience have been hunger and thirst; but this is with tamed animal people, which ignore beds and bedroom zones, so for an egg-laying fortress race you'd have to deal with sleep too. Remember that once the mother leaves the nest, it's over, even if the eggs are fertilized, so you really need to lock down movement.
I'd recommend 2x1 cells with doors that you can lock as soon as you notice the nest box has been claimed. Make the nest box square a water source zone, and make the other square a pool of (preferably clean) water. If you set up the pool for automatic refill from above, remember to use a grate so that your mother won't be able to climb out. That'll take care of thirst (pool of water is only source of drink available) and sleep (mother can't path to a designated area, so will sleep in place).
Food is going to be tricky. You can't just give her a food stockpile, as dwarves move to the food source to grab it, which will kill your eggs. And it's not safe to drop food onto the nestbox square periodically, because dropped objects can be quite deadly. I'd say your options are either to mod the female caste NO_EAT, or frequently check up on the mothers so you can let them out when they get near to starving.
ThatZommy:
--- Quote from: Button on October 07, 2015, 12:44:06 pm ---I haven't done egg-laying citizens, but I've tamed egg-laying intelligent critters, so I have some experience.
There's a DFHack plugin that shows you whether or not eggs are fertilized. I highly recommend this.
I'm not sure whether your eggs will require fertilization by a spouse - the sapient egg-layers I had were all in 0.34.11, before the fertilization mechanic overhaul. They didn't need to be married, but they weren't the primary fortress race either.
You probably want to mod your race to have inedible eggs. The default AI has no qualms about cooking up eggs of intelligent species, and I suspect that they wouldn't have any problems eating the eggs of their own species, either. Also, if eggs aren't edible, they won't be gathered from nest boxes unless you explicitly dump them - win win.
The greatest causes of egg abandonment in my experience have been hunger and thirst; but this is with tamed animal people, which ignore beds and bedroom zones, so for an egg-laying fortress race you'd have to deal with sleep too. Remember that once the mother leaves the nest, it's over, even if the eggs are fertilized, so you really need to lock down movement.
I'd recommend 2x1 cells with doors that you can lock as soon as you notice the nest box has been claimed. Make the nest box square a water source zone, and make the other square a pool of (preferably clean) water. If you set up the pool for automatic refill from above, remember to use a grate so that your mother won't be able to climb out. That'll take care of thirst (pool of water is only source of drink available) and sleep (mother can't path to a designated area, so will sleep in place).
Food is going to be tricky. You can't just give her a food stockpile, as dwarves move to the food source to grab it, which will kill your eggs. And it's not safe to drop food onto the nestbox square periodically, because dropped objects can be quite deadly. I'd say your options are either to mod the female caste NO_EAT, or frequently check up on the mothers so you can let them out when they get near to starving.
--- End quote ---
So, jail cells? Sounds Fun.
And they do have to be married, I've found, so DF Hack isn't necessary to check if they're fertilized (As far as I know). And luckily my fortresses all rely on routing a river into a mountain for drink, so I could easily route the water room into the cells so they're constantly refilled. Although, that might allow the mother to swim out. Not sure.
And from my experience, they won't eat their own eggs. It might be considered cannibalism or something, or maybe I just missed it, but they only seem to be moving them into a stockpile when I don't forbid them. I'm also not sure how to make an egg inedible. Is it just a matter of the materials?
Button:
--- Quote from: ThatZommy on October 07, 2015, 12:52:06 pm ---And they do have to be married, I've found, so DF Hack isn't necessary to check if they're fertilized (As far as I know).
--- End quote ---
Remember that fertilization now happens only if the fertilizer and the fertilizee are physically next to each other an unknown amount of time before birth/egg-laying. It would be quite possible for a married woman to lay unfertilized eggs.
--- Quote ---And luckily my fortresses all rely on routing a river into a mountain for drink, so I could easily route the water room into the cells so they're constantly refilled. Although, that might allow the mother to swim out. Not sure.
--- End quote ---
Non-amphibious/aquatic critters won't path through water that's more than 3 units high. Just be careful of the pressure.
If you want your egg-laying fortress species to be amphibious, you'll probably want to use a trickle-from-above refill system linked to a pressure plate, with a grate preventing climbing or flying escape.
--- Quote ---And from my experience, they won't eat their own eggs. It might be considered cannibalism or something, or maybe I just missed it, but they only seem to be moving them into a stockpile when I don't forbid them. I'm also not sure how to make an egg inedible. Is it just a matter of the materials?
--- End quote ---
Do keep in mind that eggs are only edible cooked.
Yeah, it's a matter of materials. The reason eggs are available for stockpile is that their materials are set to be treated as egg-type food. If you change them to use a dummy material, they'll become inedible/uncookable and also not be automatically collected for food anymore.
ThatZommy:
--- Quote from: Button on October 07, 2015, 04:13:32 pm ---
--- Quote from: ThatZommy on October 07, 2015, 12:52:06 pm ---And they do have to be married, I've found, so DF Hack isn't necessary to check if they're fertilized (As far as I know).
--- End quote ---
Remember that fertilization now happens only if the fertilizer and the fertilizee are physically next to each other an unknown amount of time before birth/egg-laying. It would be quite possible for a married woman to lay unfertilized eggs.
--- Quote ---And luckily my fortresses all rely on routing a river into a mountain for drink, so I could easily route the water room into the cells so they're constantly refilled. Although, that might allow the mother to swim out. Not sure.
--- End quote ---
Non-amphibious/aquatic critters won't path through water that's more than 3 units high. Just be careful of the pressure.
If you want your egg-laying fortress species to be amphibious, you'll probably want to use a trickle-from-above refill system linked to a pressure plate, with a grate preventing climbing or flying escape.
--- Quote ---And from my experience, they won't eat their own eggs. It might be considered cannibalism or something, or maybe I just missed it, but they only seem to be moving them into a stockpile when I don't forbid them. I'm also not sure how to make an egg inedible. Is it just a matter of the materials?
--- End quote ---
Do keep in mind that eggs are only edible cooked.
Yeah, it's a matter of materials. The reason eggs are available for stockpile is that their materials are set to be treated as egg-type food. If you change them to use a dummy material, they'll become inedible/uncookable and also not be automatically collected for food anymore.
--- Quote ---Remember that fertilization now happens only if the fertilizer and the fertilizee are physically next to each other an unknown amount of time before birth/egg-laying. It would be quite possible for a married woman to lay unfertilized eggs.
--- End quote ---
I did not know that. Guess that makes sense, though.
--- Quote ---Non-amphibious/aquatic critters won't path through water that's more than 3 units high. Just be careful of the pressure.
If you want your egg-laying fortress species to be amphibious, you'll probably want to use a trickle-from-above refill system linked to a pressure plate, with a grate preventing climbing or flying escape.
--- End quote ---
None of the species I use are amphibious, and now I'm rather happy that's the case. Sounds rather complicated, and I've never really done anything like that. As for pressure, so long as the room is on the same (Or 1 z-level above, I suppose) level as the river, It should be possible to just create a corridor underneath the prison cells hatcheries and dig a hole in their floors, I think. Also, run-on sentences.
--- Quote ---Do keep in mind that eggs are only edible cooked.
Yeah, it's a matter of materials. The reason eggs are available for stockpile is that their materials are set to be treated as egg-type food. If you change them to use a dummy material, they'll become inedible/uncookable and also not be automatically collected for food anymore.
--- End quote ---
I didn't realize they had to be cooked. I suppose it should be common sense, but I've never had much of that.
That information is actually very useful, as well. Didn't know they stockpiled eggs based on the materials. I'll go edit my egg-laying races.
There are still some major issues, however. For one, constantly jumping to the hatcheries to lock/check the rooms (Can't remember if there's an announcement), as well as jumping back to make sure the prisoners mothers aren't about to starve to death. And DF Hack is necessary to do it well. Any ideas?
--- End quote ---
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