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[Tamren]

With the new version so close i dont really feel like creating anything spectacular in a new fortress. Even if its a masterwork i KNOW im going to dump it the moment the next version comes out.

So that leave niche builds. What would be the best way to replicate sparta? What i came up with so far is:
Fortress Terrain/Danger: Anything, prefferably something dangerous.
Trade: Full, this way you can piss them all off so that you can fight them  

1. No restrictions on material use use except for equipment. Build EVERYTHING you can out of the most expensive material you can find. This means platinum barrels and chairs. The idea is to increase the value of your fortress so that you have a lot of migrants. These migrants will be needed because you will be taking many casualties, the fortress worth will negate the death total.
2. Weapons and armour can ONLY be made out of bronze. The only weapon allowed for soldiers is the spear. Armour consists of a bronze helmet, large bronze shield and a red cape. You will need to go into your weapon raw file and change the 5 in [TWO_HANDED:5]and[MINIMUM_SIZE:5] to one to allow your dwarves to use the spears one handed.
3. "Service" dwarfs like farmers should be kept to the bare minimum required to feed and keep everyone happy. Everyone else is to be drafted.
4. Turn off weather and temperature in the settings file. Keep your fortress as simple as possible to avoid straining your processor.

The idea is to get the biggest force of speardwarves that you possibly can, and take on all enemies in a headlong charge! Anything im missing?

The dwarf stats in the RAW files should probably be buffed to allow the speardwarves to be more epic without getting slaughtered, but im not sure what to change.

[ September 04, 2007: Message edited by: Tamren ]

[Tarrasque]

Just as a note, you are replicating 300, not Spartans. They were not really that dumb to not wear armor.   Historically people outfitted like the Spartans were in 300 were probrably the three thousand other greeks there. Also, taking the enemy on in a headlong charge is probrably not a good replication of Spartans either, you gotta have tactics involved. Just use corridors to your advantage, but, no traps.

[Tamren]

I know, but 300 is so much more manly! I mean come on, leather skirts? Oh well    :p

So how much armour would be too much? If we wanted to be more accurate each soldier would need:
1 Bronze spear, masterwork preffered.
1 Bronze shield
1 Bronze helmet
1 Leather armour
1 Set of bronze greaves
1 Set of leather shoes, thats the closest we can get to sandals i think.
And of course, the red cloak! red dye can be harvested by herbalists in pitiful amounts on some maps, best to trade for it from the humans.

For the shield should the RAW be modified so that the shield is hugely protective? The shield was where all the real protection came from.

Another thing that may also work is to make every single soldier a dabbling weapon/armoursmith. That way if one of them gets a strange mood the only tradeskill they know will be that one and you get a legendary smith. Hopefully anyway.

[ September 04, 2007: Message edited by: Tamren ]

[Felix the Cat]

My "Sparta mode" rules are:
-At least 50% of the total population must be serving in the military past the first winter.
-4 of the initial dwarves must start with several levels of Speardwarf/Armor User/Shield User. Use your best judgment but err on the high side. The other 3 dwarves may be leveled however you choose. Initial equipment should be whatever you choose, but for best results only 1 axe and 1 pick are required. (This fulfills the 50% requirement when considering the metalsmith.)
-These 4 dwarves must be conscripted no later than the 1st day of spring following your first winter. Prior to that they may be used for whatever is necessary to get the fortress set up.
-All weapons and armor are to be made of bronze or brass. (Yes, the Spartans used brass spears as well.) Shields should be wooden on maps with trees, bronze or brass on maps without. I generally use plate mail for the armor. No, the Spartans did not make a habit of fighting battles bare-chested.
-No traps, no siege weaponry, no crossbows.
-Most importantly, all fighting must be done in the shade.

I'm not sure about the "build everything out of expensive stuff" rule - on the one hand I can see how it helps to attract more migrants and the like, but on the other hand, opulence is so very un-Spartan. Since this is a roleplay setup, I'd leave it out and get your fortress value from making masterwork bronze plate mail and the like.

[Tarrasque]

I am doing this same sort of thing, but, in a much different appraoch. I am getting my Fortress running normally first and then planning on drafting everyone after I have enough workers.   Yeah, I know it is not really a challenge build, but, it'll be fun to have over 100 soldiers running around in the end.

[Shadowlord]

The actual Spartans wore bronze plate chest armor, at the very least.

I don't think you can really replicate them anyhow, since you'd need to be able to force your speardwarves to stand in formation, NOT CHARGE THE ENEMY, and skewer them without being hit due to the shield wall plus spears. DF just doesn't support ordering troops to not charge, and doesn't account for shield wall / phalanx tactics.

[ September 04, 2007: Message edited by: Shadowlord ]

[mport2004]

yet  

[Gaulgath]

quote:Originally posted by Shadowlord:
<STRONG>The actual Spartans wore bronze plate chest armor, at the very least.

I don't think you can really replicate them anyhow, since you'd need to be able to force your speardwarves to stand in formation, NOT CHARGE THE ENEMY, and skewer them without being hit due to the shield wall plus spears. DF just doesn't support ordering troops to not charge, and doesn't account for shield wall / phalanx tactics.

[ September 04, 2007: Message edited by: Shadowlord ]</STRONG>

Actually there is a "squad stands next to position" order that will prevent them from charging. They'll still leave the battlefield once they feel a wee bit peckish, of course...

[Sappho]

As others have pointed out, the real Spartans were heavily armored, not bare-chested.  They'd have on protection for their chest, arms, hands, head, legs, and feet - actually they were some of the most heavily armored soldiers in the ancient world.  The shields were wooden with brass or bronze plating, and in addition to the spear they would carry a small sword.  And they did not face the Persians on their own - there were about 3000 other Greek soldiers there as well.  The big heroic thing they did do was allow the 3000 to escape while the 300 Spartans distracted the Persians, so they would not know the others were leaving.

I think the idea of having a Spartan-style military-oriented fortress is a good challenge though.  We can't really do Spartan fighting, as others have pointed out, because the fighting style isn't supported.  If you want to model the actual society more closely, then all the male dwarves should be drafted and the females left to do the other work.  Older dwarves can retire from military service (have them join the fortress guard perhaps).  To mimic the incredible fighting power of the Spartans perhaps you could have them all trained in crossbows so as to do the most damage while taking the fewest casualties.  As far as only using bronze or brass items, I think that might be sort of missing the point.  The Spartans did not use bronze and brass because they liked the color - they used them because they were the strongest available.  With DF resources, they'd all have been garbed in steel.

[Fishersalwaysdie]

This makes me want to kick some goblins into chasms...

[Tarrasque]

Ah, Sappho, during the whole battle the Spartans did hold the pass the most often. Although, it was almost totally unpratcial for three hundred Spartans to hold such a small pass. Most likely there was fifty or maybe one hundred Spartans on duty at one time.

quote:Originally posted by Fishersalwaysdie:
<STRONG>This makes me want to kick some goblins into chasms...</STRONG>

This is maddess!
THIS IS DWARF FORTRESS!

[ September 04, 2007: Message edited by: Tarrasque ]

[Felix the Cat]

quote:Originally posted by Sappho:
<STRONG>To mimic the incredible fighting power of the Spartans perhaps you could have them all trained in crossbows so as to do the most damage while taking the fewest casualties.  As far as only using bronze or brass items, I think that might be sort of missing the point.  The Spartans did not use bronze and brass because they liked the color - they used them because they were the strongest available.  With DF resources, they'd all have been garbed in steel.</STRONG>

Fighting off goblin sieges with 100 crossbow-wielding, high-level dwarves armored in full steel plate isn't that much of a challenge, though.

[Sappho]

You're right, of course, Tarrasque.  I just remember my Greek professor getting all irritated at that movie because they neglected to point out that the small group of Spartans were NOT the only ones willing to fight for their region.  (Greece wasn't actually a united country yet, though they all mostly spoke the same language, which united them to a degree.)

And I think the challenge using crossbows would be simply producing enough food, drink, weapons, armor, beds, etc. to keep everyone happy.  With the majority of the dwarves in the army, your work force is cut considerably.

[Savok]

quote:Originally posted by Felix the Cat:
<STRONG>I'm not sure about the "build everything out of expensive stuff" rule - on the one hand I can see how it helps to attract more migrants and the like, but on the other hand, opulence is so very un-Spartan. Since this is a roleplay setup, I'd leave it out and get your fortress value from making masterwork bronze plate mail and the like.</STRONG>

Iron.
It is 25% as valuable as platinum and as valuable as silver. A masterwork iron statue is worth 3000.

[Felix the Cat]

quote:Originally posted by Savok:
<STRONG>
Iron.
It is 25% as valuable as platinum and as valuable as silver. A masterwork iron statue is worth 3000.</STRONG>

...que?

What are you trying to say? :-/