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Author Topic: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)  (Read 192720 times)

Il Palazzo

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1665 on: August 25, 2020, 12:21:31 pm »

It's happening next door for me, so there's a much more sustained stream of news than what most of you are getting. Kinda hard reading testimonies of beatings, torture, dehumanisation. It's Clockwork Orange or Saddam's Iraq level of wanton cruelty.
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Starver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1666 on: August 25, 2020, 03:12:47 pm »

To be fair I've seen a lot about this via the BBC <insert whichever common opinion about the BBC applies to you[1]>, which I presume isn't too far off the entirety of news available.

Self-presumed President-For-Life 'wins' what is supposed to be token elections; a small fishing-fleet's-worth of 'funny smell about this' is declared by the Opposition he had magmanimously allowed to exist; poll observers are known to have gone missing; Opposition leader is 'invited' to officially concede but isn't as convincing as he normally expects; she flees/is strongarmed out of the country as people taking stock of how much groundswell support there is come to a solid conclusion that this may not be a Representative Democracy; protests (and relatively tiny counter-protests) confirm this; minority (government) support still includes almost all law-enforcement (plus military and 'secret' police) so act heavy-handed; modern news-cycles (and off-broadcaster information channels) pick up this information; unlike prior times, the threat of 'enforcement' fans the flames rather than douses them; strikes at tractor plants (obviously! It's always tractor plants in that part of the world); calls opponents 'Nazis', for the same reason other Presidents call people 'Communists' (i.e. no ideologically correct reason, just that that's what you call anyone that isn't 'Us', even if they aren't actually anything like 'Them'); President also declares war-like conditions, donning fatigues, holding weapons due to "foreign interventions" from neighbouring NATO, 'massing forces' on his borders; meanwhile, may have sent attack helicopters over the same borders to shoot down protest-coloured balloons; In leiu of arresting the Opposition-Leader-In-Exile, arrests/detains various notable equivalent figures still on home turf, including Nobel Prize winner; Almost certainly, already has tangible Russian resources at his disposal (being an important allied buffer-state to Moscow); No sign of this stopping the protests, and now we await either violent crackdown or some violent escalation from their side, especially if select elements of the security forces switch alliegance; Any such switch ismost likely in the army, than the ideologically tighter agencies, so that is probably being held out of things and fed purs Party Line by Political Officers and sheer logistics isolating them from groundswell feeling; This tension of truth and 'Truth' will result, if ever called on to act against protestors, either as worse putting-down or a more sudden snap across the divide.


So, where is it going to go?  I can't see an obvious exit strategy that would work for all parties, or even guaranteed to make some parties the parties that emerge unscathed at the end. I don't think it'll be quite like Syria, but not like (say) Morocco, either.  If it drags beyond Nov 3rd then what happens in the US may (by a tenuous chain of not necessarily straight-forward reactions) set a new course, and <mumble mumble mumble> Covid could send various skittles flying at strange angles, too.


I have the luxury to 'only' have problems like the PM declaring safety-first considerations to be immoral, having no apparent intention to work out post-divorce scenarios with a major teading block and having only strong opinions about whether the BBC (in the matrix of opinions, not his favourite organisation) should have people sing some century-and-a-bit-old words or not (as apparently the most important thing to he discussed, right now).

If you're neighbouring this mess (part of "NATO's massing forces", no doubt, straining at the leash, eh?) then it probably is a bit more immediate, and you have my due concern. Anywhere near that Human Chain organised in sympathy, maybe?


I didn't intend to go into all that, just now, but I got a bit carried away in trying to Summarise (the more memorable reports, missed a few/forgot a few, no doubt) and Theorise, and probably could have done a better job in the Sympathise part too...  Or so I now Realise.



[1] Far too tied to the Establishment | Far too committed to bringing down the Establishment | Lefty Pinko Commies, every man-jack of 'em | Too much Old School Tie disdain for the average Working Man | etc | etc...
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1667 on: August 25, 2020, 03:39:37 pm »

We used to have a guy from Belarus didnt we

Edit: after some research we have two: Guardian GI and Avis somethibg. Guardian GI is supposed to be active
« Last Edit: August 25, 2020, 03:41:50 pm by ChairmanPoo »
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scriver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1668 on: August 25, 2020, 05:20:39 pm »

Fun fact. Over here everyone in the media has decided to start saying Belarus instead of Whiterussia for no fucking reason and I hate it.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1669 on: August 25, 2020, 05:26:40 pm »

But...that's what...Belarus...means?
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scriver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1670 on: August 25, 2020, 05:37:32 pm »

Yes. So there's no reason to call it Belarus. We were already saying Belarus. Except we were saying what it actually means, in our own language.
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1671 on: August 25, 2020, 05:43:37 pm »

Painful are the trials of the linguistic prescriptivist.
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Quote from: Thomas Paine
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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No Gods, No Masters.

misko27

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1672 on: August 25, 2020, 05:45:49 pm »

I wonder how you feel about Montenegro.
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anewaname

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1673 on: August 26, 2020, 01:09:42 am »

In addition to what Starver posted, the OSCE were not invited as independent election observers this year. No point in inviting them until you are sure you won't need to openly kill people to have your fair election.
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voliol

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1674 on: August 26, 2020, 03:20:50 am »

@scriver Searching "varför belarus" ("why Belarus") brought me this site. The point seems to be that the "rus" in Belarus refers to a medieval federation based around Kiev, rather than modern-day Russia. Of course, the "Rus" in "Russia" is also from that Rus. And Roslagen, apparently.

Maximum Spin

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1675 on: August 26, 2020, 03:44:31 am »

@scriver Searching "varför belarus" ("why Belarus") brought me this site. The point seems to be that the "rus" in Belarus refers to a medieval federation based around Kiev, rather than modern-day Russia. Of course, the "Rus" in "Russia" is also from that Rus. And Roslagen, apparently.
Russia just means "Rus' place" anyway; Belarus was itself called 'Belorussia' ("White Rus' place") until they basically decided they didn't want to sound so much like Russia because of all the Soviet problems. Rus itself is the endonym of the people who settled the whole general area and are the ancestors of Russians, Belarusians, and a bunch of other Slavic populations in the general area. The names are (apart from the 'white' part) identical.
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scriver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1676 on: August 26, 2020, 05:25:36 am »

Painful are the trials of the linguistic prescriptivist.

There's nothing prescriptive about it.

Actually, it's the opposite. It ignores the word people are actually using and imposes one that is "correct" because arbitrary reasons.


@scriver Searching "varför belarus" ("why Belarus") brought me this site. The point seems to be that the "rus" in Belarus refers to a medieval federation based around Kiev, rather than modern-day Russia. Of course, the "Rus" in "Russia" is also from that Rus. And Roslagen, apparently.

I know all of this. It still makes no sense, for the reasons you also included. And what Maximum Spin added. It's the same as Russia either way. They're still saying White Russia. It's just no longer in the actual language they are speaking in.
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wierd

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1677 on: August 26, 2020, 06:01:41 am »

Maybe they are real particular on their alcoholic beverages, and dont want to associate with the vodka drinkers? ;)



In all seriousness though, this "Oh, it was totally a legit election! HONEST!" has "Putineering" written all over it. "Consolidating culture, and offering support to cultural Russians" was his shtick for invading Ukraine too, remember? This one is just not an overtly military operations, just a complete subversion of an electoral system.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 06:05:10 am by wierd »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1678 on: August 26, 2020, 06:38:59 am »

THE LEGENDS SAY Stockholm was planned by the gods themselves.  After the fall of Smäland it was the gods who led a band of hobos to a promised land in the West.  There, Snorri Sturson and Greta Thurnberg were nursed by a friendly she-moose.
 Upon reaching adulthood, the twins founded Stockholm on the banks of a Fjord.  The city prospered and grew until one day the
Swedes reached out from their tiny domain with a great dream of glory...
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Jimmy

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1679 on: August 26, 2020, 06:59:27 am »

Did somebody say white russians?

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The Dude Belarus abides. Eastern Europe is no stranger to the fallout of the experiments of communism. Hell, I lived through the fall of the Berlin wall, and I'm not old. We just have to patiently wait out the time for these relics of a bygone era to die out before real change can happen in these places.
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