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Author Topic: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)  (Read 188013 times)

feelotraveller

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1845 on: June 16, 2021, 03:50:06 am »

(Space Police or Space Patrol would suit a 'police force' IN SPAAAACE!! far better. I don't know about everywhere, not encyclopedically, but it tends to be the Police Service ("PS of Foo", or "Foo PS") or Constabulary over here, or just qualify the word Police....
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
...while I believe the US goes for Police Department (or Sheriff's Office/similar) and worldwide it looks like Agencies, Bureaus, Inspectorates get added to the list of titular stylings. I'm not sure that 'Force' is more than a popular coverall term to cover any or all the generic national/regional/contextual/private organisations or sub-organisations, probably as a holdover from the earlier paramilitary roots) and thus purely colloquial/rightfully uncapitalised, such as "I spent more than thirty years on the force".)

I'm sure we can both play the semantic game all day  ;) but the phrase 'police force' is common parlance:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/police%20force
Quote
Definition of police force

: a body of trained officers entrusted by a government with maintenance of public peace and order, enforcement of laws, and prevention and detection of crime

[...]

Examples of police force in a Sentence
- He joined the local police force.
-mobilized practically the entire police force to track down the escaped criminal

Recent Examples on the Web:
- Garmback was allowed to remain on the police force. — Bill Hutchinson, ABC News, 25 May 2021
- Harrison spent 28 years on the New Orleans police force, working undercover early in his career to help the FBI catch corrupt officers, then rising through the ranks, including a stop as head of the internal affairs division. — Washington Post, 22 May 2021
(minor typographical alterations for readability)
What a particular police force chooses to call itself is another matter. [1]

Quote
And probably better described as an Agency, though perhaps a Directorate (implying control) or Partnership (implying inter-agency cooperation/coordination) would be a less military-implying title element. Semantics, I know, but you can be sure it'll be a harder thing to get membership signatures for if it comes with the wrong 'tone'.

No disagreement with that.  The main point was the sort of international space body we need right now - regardless of title - is not one which blows shit up in acts of war but rather one which monitors(/enforces?) compliance with agreed multinational conventions.  We ain't got space pirates (yet) but we sure do have a problem with orbitial junk, for example.

Edit:
[1] In case the argument is "we don't call them that here" I think that is a mistake.  See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_forces_of_the_United_Kingdom
Quote
This is a list of the 45 territorial police forces and 3 special police forces of the United Kingdom.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 04:12:33 am by feelotraveller »
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Starver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1846 on: June 16, 2021, 08:16:35 am »

Edit:
[1] In case the argument is "we don't call them that here" I think that is a mistake.  See for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_police_forces_of_the_United_Kingdom
Quote
This is a list of the 45 territorial police forces and 3 special police forces of the United Kingdom.
I nearly posted exactly the same (or https://www.police.uk/pu/find-a-police-force/ - for the same reasons) to support my own assertion. Not one 'police force', in the casual vernacular, is actually given the title of "(Foo/) Police Force (/of Foo)". Nor "Foo Force".

Any "Space Force" (or "International Space Force"/equivalent expansion) is going to have the same heavy connotations that were specifically dog-whistled for in the US. The thought behind the apparent intention (a liasing body - replicating and expanding such current inter-agency/vendor coordination as currently is done for both courtesy and self-interest - with sufficient legal heft to it in international courts to discourage blatant tomfoolery) wouldn't get off the launchpad with anything like that moniker.

I think "(United Nations/Whatever?) Space Command" is slightly better. It's toned down enough to make Buzz Lightyear's organisation-within-a-show-within-a-film "Star Command" a firmly family-friendly version, even with an acknowledged (toy) adversary. But USSF already derives from the (reconstituted) 1980s-era USSC/CFSCC/SpaceCom, a joint-services umbrella for all military-focussed operations above the Kármán Line. The UK created UKSC this year (April 1st... I remember waiting to see if it was revealed as an April Fool, and now I check back it seems to have a valid footprint of post-April announcements), but also firmly military/MOD in focus.


So that's why I think it'll need to be called something else. Presentation is a minor but vital element to add to its actual purpose, purview and powers, when negotiating its formation. It can be called "Mama Bouncey's Waffle Shop", for all I care, and still successfully prevent GLONASS launches bouncing fragments of BeiDou ones into the path of Galileos, etc.

And it can't be expected to stop/inhibit the largely secret NROL payloads being lofted from the US, or Kosmos/Kondor ones from the RF, just maybe make for a slightly more convenient "don't step on too many toes" approach rather than whatever the current backchannel/sky-scanning coordination allows. Especially when it comes to keeping non-governmental enterprises like Starlink from being surprised.


Whatever, the current Space Traffic Information systems (to coin a title, if I'm not remembering a real thing) needs to improve upon their already impressive Space Traffic Coordination capabilities before it gets as far as the Space Traffic Management/Control/Enforcement levels.


...sorry, definitely the wrong thread for this, but there's not the proper old-fashioned BBS functionality necessary to send this small set of diversionary posts over to the better place. Apologies to all those who don't really care. ;)
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feelotraveller

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1847 on: June 16, 2021, 08:47:49 am »

Doesn't matter what it calls itself it will still be a 'Space Force', that is a force that has space as its theatre of operation [1].  Just as being called the Metropolitan Police Service doesn't stop the organisation from being, and being regarded as a Police Force (pardon the caps  :P) - a force that has no opponent in any concrete sense (crime, law and order, etc. being abstract notions) to return to the original point.  What matters much more is its mission statement and what means of enforcement (pardon the italics  ;D) it is provided with.

[1] Locus of operation might be better but I couldn't resist...

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Starver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1848 on: June 16, 2021, 10:27:55 am »

I won't go on more about the wording itself (I've said all I care to), but I think we've got completely different ideas about the (*ahem*) 'force projection'.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Should we rename this as the non-Earth Force thread? We can include Europa, if you want.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 10:33:26 am by Starver »
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feelotraveller

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1849 on: June 16, 2021, 01:04:25 pm »

I can't help it if you insist on conflating 'force' with 'armed forces' (or 'defense force'/'defence force').  And I'm not asking for a police force in space. I'm asking for a space force that is not militarised from the get go, hence the reference to the police force*.  Really I envisage it as starting as the garbage collectors of space, that's the boots on the ...er... vacuum of the force.  While they're at it they can slap a parking ticket on that bright red roadster.


* It's not 'casual vernacular' but plain english. To use an analogy you seem to think that calling the store/chain Sainsbury's (or Walmart) prevents it from continuing to be a supermarket. Helpful hint: it doesn't.
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Starver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1850 on: June 16, 2021, 02:16:10 pm »

Sorry, but you clearly don't understand my intended points at all. My failing, I assume.
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Starver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1851 on: June 23, 2021, 07:41:31 am »

Russia and Britain argue over controversial military stand-off...

...British official is summoned to explain why Britain claims Russia didn't shell and bomb the UK's warship.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1852 on: June 23, 2021, 03:43:07 pm »

Reports have come in that shots (not) fired

feelotraveller

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scriver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1854 on: July 04, 2021, 12:57:00 pm »

You want soldiers in heels? You bring in the cavalry.
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Love, scriver~

feelotraveller

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1855 on: July 04, 2021, 03:04:29 pm »

And here I was thinking that the first reply would be some inanity about stilletos.  :D
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Strongpoint

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1856 on: July 06, 2021, 02:58:01 am »

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They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Laterigrade

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1857 on: July 06, 2021, 05:53:38 pm »

And here I was thinking that the first reply would be some inanity about stilletos.  :D
aagghhh and now I can’t stop thinking how good that joke could have been if only I’d had the idea and you hadn’t gotten there first
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1858 on: August 10, 2021, 09:30:44 am »

Speaking to RIA Novosti on Tuesday, Roman Silantyev, the deputy chairman of the Russian Ministry of Justice's advisory council on religion, said that people should be aware of the risks. “The likelihood of becoming a victim of satanists is small, but it is not zero, 20 to 30 people a year can become their victims,” he said.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #1859 on: August 10, 2021, 12:21:13 pm »

crap hes onto us
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