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[martinuzz]

I don't know how anybody can be surprised. The Israeli government takes our money and then thumbs their nose at us, starts all sorts of shit between our alliances and then condemns us for not supporting them more. Things have been moving this way for a while now.

What sort of shit Israel started between American alliances?

[martinuzz]

Something something 50 years ago is not 'starts all kinds of shit between alliances'. Or if it is, I suppose we should start looking at what the CIA did to various nations in that era. That makes the Mossad sinking a US ship look like a joke.

[Loud Whispers]

I don't know how anybody can be surprised. The Israeli government takes our money and then thumbs their nose at us, starts all sorts of shit between our alliances and then condemns us for not supporting them more. Things have been moving this way for a while now.

What sort of shit Israel started between American alliances?

Israel doesn't play nice with Turks, Egyptians and Arabs, Western audiences do not like this
Most recent high profile case that Americans care about was the time Israel leaked information they gathered from spying on US diplomacy with Iran in order to alter US foreign policy which made it impossible for the US to continue sharing information willingly with Israel
Most significant case before that would no doubt be the passport affair

Something something 50 years ago is not 'starts all kinds of shit between alliances'. Or if it is, I suppose we should start looking at what the CIA did to various nations in that era. That makes the Mossad sinking a US ship look like a joke.

Rather disrespectful to just dismiss killing your allies like a joke; moreover that logic is completely retarded. We DO look at what the CIA did to various nations, we don't justify the existence of immorality with the existence of immorality

[martinuzz]

Fight absurdism with absurdism

[Loud Whispers]

Fight absurdism with absurdism

Fighting absurdism with absurdism makes nihilism
Fighting ayy lmao with ayy lmao makes ayyrmy lmao
Fighting shitpost with shitpost makes two shitpost

[martinuzz]

Israel doesn't play nice with Turks, Egyptians and Arabs, Western audiences do not like this

Double standards. It's okay  if we turn Iraq into a burning rubble in the fight against terrorism, and 100s of thousands of people get killed, but when Israel does it, and a fraction of the property damage is dealt, and 2000 people get killed it's "BAD JEWS"

Most recent high profile case that Americans care about was the time Israel leaked information they gathered from spying on US diplomacy with Iran in order to alter US foreign policy which made it impossible for the US to continue sharing information willingly with Israel
Most significant case before that would no doubt be the passport affair

Double standards. Israel just trying to be more like NSA, US should be proud of their ally adopting their strategies.

[Sheb]

What? We give the US shit permanently for Iraq?

[ChairmanPoo]

No, just as long as the "long-term unstability" that the CIA predicted before Gulf War 2 fades, I think.

[Vilanat]

snip

Egypt relations with Israel had improved significantly in recent years. Obama's speech in Egypt which totally undermined Mubarak, his support for the Arab Spring which proved to be just Jihadists uprising and his undermining of al-sisi which drove Egypt to Russia and Iran have all harmed the Egypt-US relationship way way more than anything Israel could ever do.

Turkey and Israel relations had improved this last years, even though Turkey is definitely not a proper US ally anymore since it is now a dictatorship ran by an Islamist that had funded ISIS, funding Jihadists in Syria, conquered parts of Syria to prevent Kurds from having a country of their own and is holding the EU ransom with refugees. regardless, Israel had stirred no shit between the U.S and Turkey.

Arabs-Israel relations had improved dramatically in the recent years since Obama took office, precisely because of his deal with Iran that is, evidently, more harmful to the Arab states than Israel. Obama weakness and destructive foreign policy have caused Iraq and Syria to fall to Iranian hands and now they openly state their desire to take control of Yemen and Bahrain. i am not making this up nor am i relying on "fake news", these are all openly issued statements by Iranian top officials.

Israel harmed US-West relations? big old LOL.

[smjjames]

What? We give the US shit permanently for Iraq?

No, just as long as the "long-term unstability" that the CIA predicted before Gulf War 2 fades, I think.

That'll probably be decades. Though if you REALLY want to get down to it, you could blame Europe for arbitrarily drawing the current lines of the MidEast after WWI.

Yes, the US should take flak for our botching things up, but the West has been botching things up in the MidEast and screwing around in there for more than a century now.

Absolutely not saying that the West should completely pull up stakes because what happens there affects us and vice versa, the world is too globalized to just ignore the MidEast.

[Loud Whispers]

Double standards. It's okay  if we turn Iraq into a burning rubble in the fight against terrorism, and 100s of thousands of people get killed, but when Israel does it, and a fraction of the property damage is dealt, and 2000 people get killed it's "BAD JEWS"

Yeah nah, most people in the West hold the West directly accountable for most of the shit that has gone wrong in the ME. Hell, we're still trying to get Dubya and Blair arrested for war crimes, and you may not have realized but Bay12 is very progressive - this is one of the forums where your argument has the weakest basis in reality.
Oh wait nah the Westerners don't care about slaughtering civilians they only care about "BAD JEWS." Face it, you don't have a defence

Double standards. Israel just trying to be more like NSA, US should be proud of their ally adopting their strategies.

Again, there is no double-standard. The NSA spying on Merkel was met with outrage, not approval, and worse still the passport scandal was something even the NSA wouldn't do so you don't even have that excuse for that. Not an argument, try actually having one later.

Egypt relations with Israel had improved significantly in recent years. Obama's speech in Egypt which totally undermined Mubarak, his support for the Arab Spring which proved to be just Jihadists uprising and his undermining of al-sisi which drove Egypt to Russia and Iran have all harmed the Egypt-US relationship way way more than anything Israel could ever do.

I agree with you on all points except one missed; Israel's settlement activity in Jerusalem and and West Bank. Also as a point of information the Arab Spring wasn't "just" Jihadists uprising, as it was a very broad movement - however I will say that Western support of the Arab spring was with the foreknowledge that Islamist and Jihadist groups would take the forefront. Thanks for the info, any sources on improvement of Egypt-Israel relations? Such things are not often discussed at all in Western media

Turkey and Israel relations had improved this last years, even though Turkey is definitely not a proper US ally anymore since it is now a dictatorship ran by an Islamist that had funded ISIS, funding Jihadists in Syria, conquered parts of Syria to prevent Kurds from having a country of their own and is holding the EU ransom with refugees. regardless, Israel had stirred no shit between the U.S and Turkey.

"Turkish President Erdogan: 'I can't say if Israel or Hitler is more barbarous'"
>Turkey and Israel relations had improved
Yeah nah fam
At any rate they haven't conquered parts of Syria, their situation with the Kurds is complicated given that any Kurdish nation would likely carve out of their own, they're funding Islamists but then again, so is the US. Shots fired

Arabs-Israel relations had improved dramatically in the recent years since Obama took office, precisely because of his deal with Iran that is, evidently, more harmful to the Arab states than Israel. Obama weakness and destructive foreign policy have caused Iraq and Syria to fall to Iranian hands and now they openly state their desire to take control of Yemen and Bahrain. i am not making this up nor am i relying on "fake news", these are all openly issued statements by Iranian top officials.

Well you provided no sources so though I wish to believe you, I cannot. Given that I have posted where the Israelis leaked confidential information that undermined US diplomatic efforts, with source - I am not as convinced that it really is the case that the Arab nations who did less had more to fear than the Israelis who took more precautions.

Israel harmed US-West relations? big old LOL.

I don't see how undermining US diplomacy helps US diplomacy tbh
Moreover I imagine most people in the West wouldn't really give a shit if Israel just stopped flattening neighbourhoods so visibly or stopped abusing the trust of its allies so flagrantly especially since it receives more military aid from it than any other country in history, including WWII
Like damn, you gotta just be humble and acknowledge you were given one whole Germany or Korea's worth of defence budget

[Vilanat]

I agree with you on all points except one missed; Israel's settlement activity in Jerusalem and and West Bank. Also as a point of information the Arab Spring wasn't "just" Jihadists uprising, as it was a very broad movement - however I will say that Western support of the Arab spring was with the foreknowledge that Islamist and Jihadist groups would take the forefront. Thanks for the info, any sources on improvement of Egypt-Israel relations? Such things are not often discussed at all in Western media

I can't see how that hurt US-Egypt relations. it sure as hell didn't hurt them before Obama and it sure as hell wont hurt them after Obama. the only thing that is hurting Egypt-US relations is Obama.

"Turkish President Erdogan: 'I can't say if Israel or Hitler is more barbarous'"
>Turkey and Israel relations had improved
Yeah nah fam
At any rate they haven't conquered parts of Syria, their situation with the Kurds is complicated given that any Kurdish nation would likely carve out of their own, they're funding Islamists but then again, so is the US. Shots fired

Did i not say Erdogan is an Islamist, dictator and Jihadist promoter? i have. and i also said that the relationships were improved, as written in that very same article. regardless, Israel didn't hurt US-Turkey relations, it's the Jihadist who have. Do you seriously blame Israel for Erdogan? That's like saying the EU is now stirring shit between US and its allies because of Erdogan.

Turkey didn't conquer parts of Syria?! The recent news about Turkey losing 2 leopards tanks to ISIS happened at al-bab, 30KM from the nearest Turkey's border.
In fact, Turkey's conquered lands in Syria is now several times bigger than the Gaza stip.

I like how you are willing to say the Kurds-Turkey relations is a complicated issue to excuse Turkey conquering of chunks pf a country and just to stop the rightful formation of another country, but when palestinians attack Israel and Israel responds you give it as an example of Israel's wrongdoing and of stirring shit between the US and its allies. yeah, no double standards at all.

Well you provided no sources so though I wish to believe you, I cannot. Given that I have posted where the Israelis leaked confidential information that undermined US diplomatic efforts, with source - I am not as convinced that it really is the case that the Arab nations who did less had more to fear than the Israelis who took more precautions.

How long did it take for Iran to take american sailors hostage after they signed that deal? how long did it take them to breach that deal? . Bibi acted in order to prevent a catastrophe. he failed and now Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen and Saudi Arabia have to take the heat for it. soon it will be Bahrain and Egypt.

The Arab nations did less visibly because the american public doesn't give a damn about Saudi Arabia and they know it, plus, they still can't show any sort of alliance or at least agreement with Israel but if you google about the gulf states regarding the deal before it was signed, you could easily find articles of them calling out against it.

I don't see how undermining US diplomacy helps US diplomacy tbh
Moreover I imagine most people in the West wouldn't really give a shit if Israel just stopped flattening neighbourhoods so visibly or stopped abusing the trust of its allies so flagrantly especially since it receives more military aid from it than any other country in history, including WWII
Like damn, you gotta just be humble and acknowledge you were given one whole Germany or Korea's worth of defence budget

Israel should just shut the fuck up when Obama is endangering the entire Middle East just because the US gives Israel military aid? i don't think so.

[Rolepgeek]

Didn't Erdogan praise Hitler and say he hoped to be as organized and effective at some point?

Dictator needs to learn to dictate, instead of mumble.

[Loud Whispers]

I can't see how that hurt US-Egypt relations. it sure as hell didn't hurt them before Obama and it sure as hell wont hurt them after Obama. the only thing that is hurting Egypt-US relations is Obama.

Yeah yeah everything is Obama's fault, Israel is infallible and its settlement constructions has no opposition in the West whatsoever
Thanks Obama

Did i not say Erdogan is an Islamist, dictator and Jihadist promoter? i have.

I don't see the issue, I'm agreeing with you

and i also said that the relationships were improved, as written in that very same article.

No, written in the article is that an attempt to improve relations was made after an Israeli commando raid killed 10 turks and prompted the Turks to cut off all defence ties and expel the Israeli ambassador. Who are you trying to delude with fake news when the reality is before you?

regardless, Israel didn't hurt US-Turkey relations, it's the Jihadist who have. Do you seriously blame Israel for Erdogan? That's like saying the EU is now stirring shit between US and its allies because of Erdogan.

This is hilarious
Started off with a simple request for examples where Israel has taken US money, messed with US diplomacy and complained that the US does not support them enough despite being the largest recipient of military aid in history. I gave examples because MSH is sleepy or something, and then the goalposts moved to how double standards were being applied and I showed how that was wrong, now the goalposts have moved again to this

Turkey didn't conquer parts of Syria?! The recent news about Turkey losing 2 leopards tanks to ISIS happened at al-bab, 30KM from the nearest Turkey's border.
In fact, Turkey's conquered lands in Syria is now several times bigger than the Gaza stip.

No sources, it didn't happen. If you're going to claim another country is conquering another one you better bring sources mate

I like how you are willing to say the Kurds-Turkey relations is a complicated issue to excuse Turkey conquering of chunks pf a country and just to stop the rightful formation of another country, but when palestinians attack Israel and Israel responds you give it as an example of Israel's wrongdoing and of stirring shit between the US and its allies. yeah, no double standards at all.

Are you bloody daft
I'm saying it's a complicated issue because it's a complicated issue, the USA backs the territorial sovereignty of Turkey yet Israel wants to "rightfully" balkanize other countries unilaterally or else is completely disregarding of its actions controversy in BRICS or how it has a become a serious source of concern amongst the US who supports Israel militarily all continuing from past offensives. No one is asking for Israel to not retaliate against attacks, they're far more concerned as MSH succinctly summed up with how Israel accepts vast sums of US military aid and yet acts unilaterally even if it threatens the stability of the Middle East, causes humanitarian crises which exacerbates the EU's troubles and actively undermines US foreign policy. All of these things makes it increasingly harder for anyone in the West to support Israel, because it openly disregards international law or as before, abuses its relationships with its allies. This is behaviour that is expected of belligerent nations, not allied ones, certainly not dependent ones - it's simply untenable and will shoot yourself in the foot

How long did it take for Iran to take american sailors hostage after they signed that deal? how long did it take them to breach that deal? . Bibi acted in order to prevent a catastrophe. he failed and now Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Yemen and Saudi Arabia have to take the heat for it. soon it will be Bahrain and Egypt.

The five members of the UN Security Council have not reacted forcefully or taken appropriate measures to hold the Iranian government accountable for the violations. Generally speaking, China and Russia, which enjoy their strategic, geopolitical and economic alliance with Tehran and favor Iran’s counterbalance stance against the US and its allies, have used Iran’s line of argument for launching the ballistic missiles.
France, Britain and Germany, which are much to the left of the US, or sometimes follow in the footsteps of Washington’s policy towards Iran, have not taken these military maneuvers seriously.
The US has stopped short of calling Iran’s actions as violations of UN Security Council resolutions. President Obama will continue to overlook Iran’s belligerent actions, including ballistic missile launches and the detention of US sailors by the Iranian forces, until he leaves office. He desires what he sees as his crowning foreign policy “achievement”, the nuclear agreement, to remain intact.
President Obama is concerned that holding Iran accountable for these violations might force the Iranian leaders to abandon the nuclear deal, thus causing its failure.
Furthermore, France, Britain and other European countries have less incentive to publicly hold Iran responsible, because of the increasing economic and trade ties with Tehran particularly in the energy sector (oil and gas).

So yep, Bibi acting by himself to stop the five security council members and Iran working together for a long-term diplomatic solution that would allow Iran to begin reintegrating into the world economy for the prosperity of its people whilst under observance by the USA to reduce its breakout time to a year. Bibi acting unilaterally to sabotage international diplomacy using leaked information from confidential discussions gained through espionage on an ally - to directly alter US foreign policy. Do you really think anyone can get away with such actions with no backlash? It is foolish to think so
Oh wait sorry, nah, this is a "catastrophe" and we must blame the Arabs for some reason.

The Arab nations did less visibly because the american public doesn't give a damn about Saudi Arabia and they know it, plus, they still can't show any sort of alliance or at least agreement with Israel but if you google about the gulf states regarding the deal before it was signed, you could easily find articles of them calling out against it.

Gulf allies 'back Iran nuclear deal' after US security guarantees
Qatari Foreign Minister Khalid al-Attiya said the Iran deal represented the best option for regional stability.

Israel should just shut the fuck up when Obama is endangering the entire Middle East just because the US gives Israel military aid? i don't think so.

QFT this is priceless

Didn't Erdogan praise Hitler and say he hoped to be as organized and effective at some point?
Dictator needs to learn to dictate, instead of mumble.

“If the system is abused it may lead to bad management resulting in disasters as in Hitler’s Germany ... The important thing is to pursue fair management that serves the nation,” the statement said, adding it was unacceptable to suggest Erdogan was casting Hitler’s Germany in a positive light.

The damage control is not as sexy as the tabloid
My favourite one who did compare himself to Hitler is Mugabe "ten times Hitler"

On Britain: "Britain is a very cold, uninhabitable country with small houses.”

Ayy lmao he nailed it, don't know why people keep trying to immigrate here

[Helgoland]

Relevant.