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Author Topic: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1782 Espionage Phase  (Read 20708 times)

Zanzetkuken The Great

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International/OOC thread



A Message from the Dunwich Military Council to the National Development Force, March 18, 1780

We do not need to explain how vital your task is for the future of the Confederacy.  Our basic border skirmishes with the Atterton Monarchy has started to prove we will soon be facing against a beast of a different breed than any seen previously by the Confederacy.  Even if this were not the case, there is always the threat of the Empire coming forth to attempt to retake the islands.  We need what you can provide so our victory and future independence shall be assured.  We do not believe the price of failure needs to be stated.

Erga futura victoria!



Spoiler: Nation Specs - 1780 (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 06:28:07 pm by Zanzetkuken The Great »
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2015, 06:37:53 pm »

I think flintlock pistols for our cavalry look like a nice first step.

On other hand I think we shouldn't focus on designs but on advancing tech trees. What can be our long-term focus?

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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2015, 06:46:37 pm »

I think flintlock pistols for our cavalry look like a nice first step.

On other hand I think we shouldn't focus on designs but on advancing tech trees. What can be our long-term focus?

Pistols are a good idea but i think that  flintlock pistols are to little of a step, we need to try new tech.

I propose that we adapt modern Air weapons in the foot steps of the Austrian army.

Spoiler: Mark 1 air rifle (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 08:19:32 pm by Funk »
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2015, 07:28:32 pm »

I am sceptical that we can get a truly effective rifle this way but... compressed air can be used in many creative ways later.

I vote for an air rifle
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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2015, 07:57:36 pm »

I like it as well, but I'm a little concerned about the ergonomics. Replacement reservoirs are going to be heavy, and the pumps will be even heavier if we're giving them to soldiers instead of just having them carry a bunch of them into battle. I could see that being okay with mounted troops if we make it carbine-sized, but other than the rifling I don't see it having much advantage over the Brown Bess for our infantry. The production cost of a rifled barrel in this time period would probably make it a weapon for a few highly skilled sharpshooters anyway.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 08:09:33 pm by Baffler »
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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2015, 08:19:14 pm »

I like it as well, but I'm a little concerned about the ergonomics. Replacement reservoirs are going to be heavy, and the pumps will be even heavier if we're giving them to soldiers instead of just having them carry a bunch of them into battle. I could see that being okay with mounted troops if we make it carbine-sized, but other than the rifling I don't see it having much advantage over the Brown Bess for our infantry.

Speed is it main advantage, it can fire much faster than a Brown Bess.
The other advantage is the lack of smoke and quieter fireing sound.

Now as for pumps/ reservoirs problem A) we can try just haveing a large pump for every 50 or so men and just issue lots of replacement reservoirs.
Or B) build a pump in to each gun in the place of the ram rod and have solders top up as they go.

Thinking more about this i can see it working better as a squad weapon like a machine gun with it's own crew to look after it.
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 08:35:33 pm »

I like it as well, but I'm a little concerned about the ergonomics. Replacement reservoirs are going to be heavy, and the pumps will be even heavier if we're giving them to soldiers instead of just having them carry a bunch of them into battle. I could see that being okay with mounted troops if we make it carbine-sized, but other than the rifling I don't see it having much advantage over the Brown Bess for our infantry.

Speed is it main advantage, it can fire much faster than a Brown Bess.
The other advantage is the lack of smoke and quieter fireing sound.

Now as for pumps/ reservoirs problem A) we can try just haveing a large pump for every 50 or so men and just issue lots of replacement reservoirs.
Or B) build a pump in to each gun in the place of the ram rod and have solders top up as they go.

Thinking more about this i can see it working better as a squad weapon like a machine gun with it's own crew to look after it.

Rifles were a gigantic pain in the ass to manufacture in this era though. Giving 20 guys muskets would put the same number of shots downrange and cost less too. The quiet and lack of smoke is something I didn't consider though. It really is an excellent weapon for sharpshooters and skirmishers, we wouldn't need all that many and it doesn't matter if those guys can only fire 30 or 40 shots when they can specifically target officers and artillery crews from outside musket range.

+1 to the air rifle as well.
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Quote from: Helgoland
Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
Location subject to periodic change.
Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.

Zanzetkuken The Great

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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2015, 09:37:21 pm »

I propose that we adapt modern Air weapons in the foot steps of the Austrian army.

May want to adjust your phrasing there a bit.  The rifle you are mentioning was potentially designed and put into service in the game's current year (look at Service History and Production History).  With information having to go over boats on several month journeys, you probably won't hear about it til late this year, early next year at a minimum.
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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2015, 09:55:50 pm »

I'm going to rewrite the proposal, if you don't mind. Give it a fancy name, and more specifics.

Spoiler: Victoria Air Rifle (click to show/hide)

Skirmishers and sharpshooters can carry knives/other crude CQB weapons in lieu of a bayonet. At least for now, it'd probably be only useable by skirmishers, since it would take a lot of training to get used to it.. Still, it has plenty of advantages over the musket: Much faster rate of fire, able to reload while lying down, more accurate, less smoke/noise, etc.
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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2015, 10:13:01 pm »

Actually, instead of just compressed air could we include a spring-piston system as well? I'm imagining a mechanism where a spring cocked by a lever (which also chambers the round) gets the projectile going, then the compressed air is used to increase its velocity just before it comes out of the barrel. A piston on its own with current materials technology wouldn't do it but it'd at least mitigate the problem of carrying the reservoirs, since we could use less air per shot. I can see it being more expensive, but the advantages in the field justify the cost IMO.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 10:17:50 pm by Baffler »
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Even if you found a suitable opening, I doubt it would prove all too satisfying. And it might leave some nasty wounds, depending on the moral high ground's geology.
Location subject to periodic change.
Baffler likes silver, walnut trees, the color green, tanzanite, and dogs for their loyalty. When possible he prefers to consume beef, iced tea, and cornbread. He absolutely detests ticks.

Sheb

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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2015, 08:46:06 am »

That seems too complex.

Why don't we go for some kind of logistic improvement, like steam engine? It's going to be useful for later, and more resources means more artillery.
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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2015, 08:56:42 am »

The spring-piston seems far too complex, yeah. We want this to be an Expensive weapon, because it'll be practically useless if it's Very Expensive.

As for the logistics improvement, I feel it's a good idea to get off to an early start in the land war, and then work on resources once we have the momentum we need.

We could spend a revision on, say, making a breech-loading musket. That would about double the fire-rate of our rank-and-file infantry. Or improving our roads, or something. Either would work.
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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2015, 09:02:18 am »

Well the thing is, we don't know exactly what weapon will be useful, depending on the theater. There is a non-zero chance that this air rifle design will end up being useless. A steam engine is 100% certain to be of immediate use, and we can design weapons next turn with the benefit of experience.

Also, what are we going to do, diplomacy-wise?

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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2015, 09:13:33 am »

I figure the air rifle will be very useful on all/most fronts, if it doesn't turn out to be a complete failure. The western side seems to be mostly plains, and that independent mountain, which means they'll be having long-range field battles, where the rifle will be useful to pick off officers, artillery, or just unfortunate enemy soldiers. The east seems to be mostly heavier forest, with a bit of plains, so that front will probably have closer combat, with less place for artillery fire. I imagine the air rifle would still be useful there, as our skirmishers would have a large exchange-of-fire advantage, and they'd be able to better use cover, since they wouldn't have to stand up to reload.

Of course, I could be being overly optimistic. Still, I feel that we should spend this first turn on infantry weapons, and, hopefully, get a huge jumpstart on the land war.
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Re: Arms Race: 1780 - Dunwich Meritocratic Confederacy - 1780 Design Phase
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2015, 10:17:22 am »

Building an air does put us closer to a steam engine they both share some tech.

If the rifles work then we can consider a larger steam powered machinegun
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Agree, plus that's about the LAST thing *I* want to see from this kind of game - author spending valuable development time on useless graphics.

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Death to the false emperor a warhammer40k SG
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