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Author Topic: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.  (Read 294692 times)

Il Palazzo

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2100 on: January 24, 2023, 06:18:11 pm »

Against the Storm feels like a masterclass in mixing genres between rougelike, rouge-lite, and city builders.
The fact that every single game is wildly different due to well done randomness and that it puts constant pressure on you makes it a great rougelike.
The fact that each game is short and snappy and the metaprogression is all fun makes it a great rouge-lite.
And its just a great city builder, building up each city as you slowly progress through the tech trees with what limited natural resources you have available feels neat.

Honestly? Its just a great game. I'm currently gotten to prestige 6 and and will slowly keep pushing higher.
It totally *does* deserve its own thread, but it currently doesn't have one.
I see rave reviews, then I look at the game, and I don't get. Can you, maybe, try and hone in on how - what looks like to me - a city builder that doesn't allow you to enjoy your intricate works due to its short-bouts roguelite nature (right?) makes for such a great game? Is it the metaprogression that's so well done? Is it maybe some puzzle-like nature of each run? Like, what would you peg onto it as >the< thing it's so outstanding in?
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Jopax

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2101 on: January 25, 2023, 09:40:16 am »

I think it hits that sweet spot of the early game struggle being enjoyable to a ton of folks, as opposed to the long term building of a city or similar. A lot of people (myself somewhat included) tend to lose interest in a long term city project if they don't have some goals or something very compelling to work towards. They instead find enjoyment in the initial setup and struggle to provide the basics, where the challenge isn't necessarily to optimized a solution to a problem but to rather figure out how to solve it in the first place.

I haven't played the game myself, but i have been following it somewhat loosely and it does look like a neat idea, executed fairly well to boot with a surprising amount of polish (unlike a lot of the games in the genre which tend to be fairly rough in this stage of development).
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lemon10

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2102 on: January 26, 2023, 03:44:14 am »

Like, what would you peg onto it as >the< thing it's so outstanding in?
Its impossible to pick any individual thing as making it a great game, it has a ton of interesting systems that are all outstanding and work together very well.

But I would have to say that the short puzzle like games that are all unique combined with good pacing as well as the constant escalating pressure both in game and as you progress down the prestige difficulties (which are mostly quite chill actually thanks to the meta progression) is what makes it so good.
that doesn't allow you to enjoy your intricate works
When you win it typically means you finally got all your shit in order and your city has been working properly for at least a good couple of minutes, so you do enjoy everything working and humming along nicely, at which point things come to a end.
When it ends it doesn't feel like a "aw man, it was just getting good" it typically feels more like your city succeeded and you don't need to keep playing any longer. Of course it also often feels more like "Oh god that was so close, everyone was dying and leaving and that event that was going to kill like 15 people was just about to go off and lose me the game".

In addition the short games mean that you don't feel that much pressure or hesitation over any choice since none of them truly matter in the long term. Sure, it might lose you the game, but it won't screw you over for hours and hours and hours like screwing stuff up in some longer term games, which is honestly a problem I've been facing more as I've been getting older and have more trouble starting new complex games and learning all their mechanisms.
If you like roguelites you probably won't have an issue with the short games, but of course not everyone does.
Similarly if you really like making giant cities it might not be the game for you, you don't make thousands of buildings filled with thousands of people working there like you do in more traditional city builders.
Is it the metaprogression that's so well done? Is it maybe some puzzle-like nature of each run?
The meta progression feels very nice, especially as its typically paired with you slowly descending down the prestige difficulties as you play which in effect means that (combined with your slowly increasing knowledge) the game doesn't actually get that much harder.
Each game is also a big puzzle, you get different buildings/perks/events/game modifiers/resources every single run, and you have to figure out which buildings and perks to pick for the resources you have and how many events locations you go to open, and how to avoid everyone dying or leaving your settlement due to bad events or horrid modifiers.
I imagine there are optimal strategies that I would need to use if I want to actually get to prestige 20 (the hardest one), but so far there are a wide variety of good strategies.

One thing that's really cool that I personally love is that basically every single recipe has multiple different ways to make it.
Some are fairly boring and simple. You wanna make jerky? Use meat or insects as well as some fuel.
Some have tons more options to pick from. You wanna make skewers? Use meat/insects/mushrooms/jerky and also throw in some vegetables/eggs/berries/roots.
That means that there are a bunch of different paths you can take for most items.
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Folly

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2103 on: January 26, 2023, 07:34:38 pm »

that doesn't allow you to enjoy your intricate works
When you win it typically means you finally got all your shit in order and your city has been working properly for at least a good couple of minutes, so you do enjoy everything working and humming along nicely, at which point things come to a end.
When it ends it doesn't feel like a "aw man, it was just getting good" it typically feels more like your city succeeded and you don't need to keep playing any longer. Of course it also often feels more like "Oh god that was so close, everyone was dying and leaving and that event that was going to kill like 15 people was just about to go off and lose me the game".

As you play, Hostility of the Forest and Queen's Ire are constantly increasing, bringing your colony ever closer to failure.
Near the end I often find myself cutting corners and sacrificing my precious stockpiled resources in a frantic effort to meet the victory conditions before everything falls apart. It's always satisfying when I manage to avoid disaster and gain some resources to invest in the meta progression.
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Salmeuk

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2104 on: January 26, 2023, 11:25:22 pm »

the new update to hitman 3, while regrettably a hypercapitalist always-online service, is great fun.

the World of Assassination update adds fairly intricate roguelike elements to the base game, with randomized contracts and a meta-campaign. Most interesting-ly, the mode punishes you for dying by stripping you of current inventory items. However, this "freelancer" mode returns you to a safehouse after every mission, allowing you to collect useful items.

so far, it is fairly difficult to pull off some of the missions since you start with so very little. but this difficulty is welcome - compared to the original formula of 'intricate puzzle of timing and memorization', freelancer is much more of a reactive experience. you need a certain agility to arrive at the right set of actions and you cannot simply memorize the correct path (though previous experience with the maps is always helpful)

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Kagus

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2105 on: January 27, 2023, 05:08:41 am »

I arrived on the front, patched up a soldier and was immediately promoted to corporal which seems a wee bit optimistic, but otherwise it seems pretty solid.

"Old corporal's dead. You're it until you're dead or till I find somebody better."

Iduno

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2106 on: January 27, 2023, 06:34:47 pm »

the new update to hitman 3, while regrettably a hypercapitalist always-online service, is great fun.

the World of Assassination update adds fairly intricate roguelike elements to the base game, with randomized contracts and a meta-campaign. Most interesting-ly, the mode punishes you for dying by stripping you of current inventory items. However, this "freelancer" mode returns you to a safehouse after every mission, allowing you to collect useful items.

so far, it is fairly difficult to pull off some of the missions since you start with so very little. but this difficulty is welcome - compared to the original formula of 'intricate puzzle of timing and memorization', freelancer is much more of a reactive experience. you need a certain agility to arrive at the right set of actions and you cannot simply memorize the correct path (though previous experience with the maps is always helpful)

The need to memorize is my main issue with the previous 2 games. I much prefer just barely managing to escape detection while trying to find a new disguise, then getting caught hiding the body and needing to deal with getting to the next area and finding another new disguise before the civilians tell someone what I did. Barely-contained chaos feels great when you succeed.
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Akura

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2107 on: January 29, 2023, 08:57:46 pm »

Goldeneye was released for the Switch's N64 emulator a few days ago. I don't know how the multiplayer works; the big thing about this is that they wanted to have online multiplayer... which given how friggin' fun Goldeneye was back in the day, this is a big thing.

Unfortunately, I found the controls very awkward. Default controls, left stick(which emulates the N64 stick) controls both movement and turning, while the right stick(emulates C-Buttons) handle strafing and vertical look. It would be much more comfortable if left stick handled movement and strafing and right stick handled looking. I don't think there's a way to customize the controls to that degree. PRE-EDIT: There actually is, but it requires tampering with system-wide settings, and requires swapping them every time you change to a different game and back.
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Robsoie

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2108 on: January 30, 2023, 06:56:13 am »

Made me remember, if you're interested in the 2 n64 FPS from Rare (Goldeneye and Perfect Dark) there's a forked version of the 1964 emulator that allow you to play them with mouse keyboard
https://github.com/Graslu/1964GEPD/releases
( roms are obviously not included )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mL0I__VMec
and  in case you have some screen tearing and enabling vsync would lower performance too much :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpu_VC6cC8o
« Last Edit: January 30, 2023, 06:58:18 am by Robsoie »
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2109 on: February 02, 2023, 08:11:15 pm »

Against the Storm feels like a masterclass in mixing genres between rougelike, rouge-lite, and city builders.
The fact that every single game is wildly different due to well done randomness and that it puts constant pressure on you makes it a great rougelike.
The fact that each game is short and snappy and the metaprogression is all fun makes it a great rouge-lite.
And its just a great city builder, building up each city as you slowly progress through the tech trees with what limited natural resources you have available feels neat.

Honestly? Its just a great game. I'm currently gotten to prestige 6 and and will slowly keep pushing higher.
It totally *does* deserve its own thread, but it currently doesn't have one.
Alright, I took the bait and bought it. And boy, is this an insanely well designed game or what - just as you said.
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Dostoevsky

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2110 on: February 07, 2023, 03:12:22 pm »

Since it's gotten barely over a dozen steam reviews thus far, figured I'd do a quick plug for a relatively new Final Fantasy Tactics (FFT)-like: Eden's Last Sunrise. If you don't like FFT combat just skip over the rest of this post, hah. If you do like FFT combat there's a demo at the link, so I guess you can also skip over the rest of this if you want?

Combat layer is a moderately more complex FFT, as there's a cover system (along with more ranged attacks in general), AP system, aggro mechanics, and several other quirks. Some of the classes make for a suitably different take on FFT mechanics, such as one that's centered around creating large fields of minor floor hazards then detonating them violently. The animations are a tad too slow for my tastes, but the HP to damage to healing ratio is in a pretty good spot so battles don't drag. Your deployed number tends to range between 4 and 8 depending on the mission. Difficulty is a bit on the easy side, but you can tweak the difficulty of each individual battle before starting it if you're finding a portion of the game too easy.

Under the AP system you usually have 6 total. Moving costs 1 (but you can usually only move once per turn), defending costs 2 but only protects against the next attack and ends your turn, and other moves can cost anywhere from 0 to 4 AP, with basic actions generally costing 3. Any leftover AP at the end of a unit's turn will slightly speed their next turn. This works out to having a fair bit of variability in how a given class can spend their turn, which helps differentiate the classes further.

You have roughly 10 story characters, and have another 6 slots to create generic troopers. Story characters don't have unique classes generally, but do sometimes get unique limit breaks.

Campaign layer is... I guess I'd describe as a mix between the more recent Personas and FFT? You're on a set time limit broken up into 5 day weeks: on the first day you dispatch your troops to different missions very similar to the FFT ones, albeit in a more transparent fashion. You see what characteristics are needed and see what overall odds are based on which troops you pick. On days 2-4 of the week you can socialize with story characters for a very basic social link thing and maybe some platonic romance, you can do sidequest battles (mostly set sidequests instead of random, but there are more than enough of them), do basic stat training, or 'explore' for possibly some side scenes, loot, etc. Day 5 of the week has you get your resources & funding (used mainly for upgrading gear you get as battle loot) and automatically doing an explore scene.

Campaign layer is fine? It's not terribly deep, but it fills in the space between battles well enough. There's also a simple card game akin to FF8 or FF9's, though there aren't that many cards or too many different opponents.

The story is conceptually pretty neat, but in my nearly-completed playthrough thus far it's a bit thin - every week or two (over the roughly 140 days total) you have a story narration beat or a story battle. You end up spending more time in the sidequest battles than the main story, which may or may not be satisfying.

Briefly, the story setup is: You have a planet with peoples, and there's magic and stuff. A few centuries back there was a great social split between those who want to explore space and those who want to say home, and thus you end up with the Spacefarers and Dwellers. Culturally they drop ties, and drift apart - magic doesn't work off the planet, and tech no longer appeals to folks on the planet. At the game start the spacers discover some sort of incoming anomalous wave that, if readings are correct, will annihilate all life in the solar system in just a few months. They start up a project to reinitiate contact with the planet dwellers and devise a means of trying to get both spacers and dwellers to survive.

It's also a multiple storyline situation - At the beginning you pick which of two sides you want to be on (i.e. a spacer or a dweller), and then there's a major choice about halfway through. Along with some fifth path I'm not sure about yet, for a total of 5 endings. Not sure if the game is replayable enough for 5 runs, but at the very least you're able to pick which initial perspective you have on the events and which direction you want to go as things shake out. Which is nice.
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Folly

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2111 on: February 07, 2023, 05:23:29 pm »

Against the Storm feels like a masterclass in mixing genres between rougelike, rouge-lite, and city builders.
Alright, I took the bait and bought it. And boy, is this an insanely well designed game or what - just as you said.

After putting some more hours into Against the Storm, I'm finding myself increasingly turned off by the RNG of the game.
Too often I set up for trading, but cannot find anyone to buy what I'm producing; or I manage to sell my goods and make a lot of currency, but then I can't find traders selling what I want to buy so I'm stuck with a bunch of useless currency. Or I get set up to produce a lot of grain and convert it to flour, but then I can't get the blueprint for a bakery to cook my flour, so I'm left holding a lot of useless flour. Or I set up to produce a lot of contentment items, then I can't get the building that consumes those contentment items.
This seems to be the pattern in most colonies actually. My best laid plans fail to come to fruition, and I'm forced to scrape together whatever inefficient reputation points I can find just to bring and end to this failure of a colony and hope that the next one turns out better; but it rarely does.
And thus far the meta-progression has done nothing to improve the situation. I've gotten a handful of starting resources that help the early phases of the colony go faster, but nothing that can really help me complete a resource chain when RNG doesn't want to cooperate.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2112 on: February 07, 2023, 05:38:40 pm »

I don't know, I think the rng is reasonably fair. The initial cornerstones and blueprints can set you up on one path or another, but I find myself always merely scrapping by for the first five days or so, before I finally start to find things to turn all the junk I've accumulated into complete chains. Makes for a great game dynamic, IMO, where you nearly always start off with forlorn hope, convinced that there's no way to turn this one around. And then you find the last missing piece of the puzzle, and it all clicks. Starts working together like a well-oiled machine, and you get a sense of accomplishment.
Unless it doesn't. Sometimes you just lose. But I've never felt it was a foregone conclusion when it happened.

And how do you ever have too much money? Buy all the cornerstones. All of them. Call merchants earlier and do it again. Heck, even purchasing complex food/coats/services inputs can sometimes replace actually producing them.
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Folly

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2113 on: February 07, 2023, 07:13:26 pm »

And how do you ever have too much money? Buy all the cornerstones. All of them.

I always get cornerstones along the line of "+x production of resource that doesn't spawn anywhere on this map" or "+bonus when fulfilling service that I can't get the service building for".
And the RNG is only made worse by unlocking additional buildings as I level up, further increasing the likelihood that I will get a full set of redundant blueprints instead of what I actually need.
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lemon10

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Re: Blurb on Games that probably don't deserve their own threads.
« Reply #2114 on: February 07, 2023, 09:12:51 pm »

You learn as you go what stuff works the best. To me it mostly feels like what is really tough to get and what stuff is useful are the big issues. For instance flour and many food products require more buildings in a chain, and some are easy (jerky and skewers and meat).

Or you slowly kind of realize what you need to deal with glades and what the threats in them could be.
Or you realize that the hunter lodge is the best (meat 4 life) gathering camp in the game.
---
But I feel its calibrated pretty well, a lot of the time you almost feel like you will lose and that your colony will collapse or that failed event will end your run, and then it just kind of all comes together just before the end.
Those last five or ten minutes can be rough though.
The RNG feels fair to me, its just you need to learn the production lines and get a few of the extra perks (eg. you can buy rerolls with money, you start with all the advanced house recipes).
---
You can't actually have too much money, buying all the stuff from the merchant is a hell of a advantage (eg. hundreds of food per year, six sets of the complex goods), if you are making that amber you can spend them for a lot of complexity equivalents.
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And with a mighty leap, the evil Conservative flies through the window, escaping our heroes once again!
Because the solution to not being able to control your dakka is MOAR DAKKA.

That's it. We've finally crossed over and become the nation of Da Orky Boyz.
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