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[AzyWng]

I'm not a big fan of the FO3/NV style, where having enough Speech gives you the best ending on a silver platter while apologizing for ever being in your way

I remember in Dead Money (you know, the one about letting go even though several players tried to ignore the lesson as hard as possible by carrying out an item that most vendors wouldn't even have the caps to fully pay you for?), there was one character where a speech check would actually be a dialogue trap of sorts in that, when you were separated and reunited with them later, they'd try to kill you rather than, if you were the one being subservient to them, being willing to help you. This dialogue trap would occur whether you had the skill points to succeed or not, if memory serves.

While that does make speech a more interesting option than the NV/FO3 style (and certainly not some luck-based "pretty please" like FO4), that does come with the problem of potentially pissing players off by making them pour skill points into something that either doesn't work or actively works against them. Making speech a challenge of choosing the right dialogue would mean that, short of SPECIAL stats preventing you from saying certain things (the way low intellect in 1 and 2 would cause your character's speech pattern to be dramatically different than normal speech), any character could smooth-talk their way out of a scenario that could be smooth-talked out of, with enough save-scumming. Combining the two would likely take additional time in either programming, writing, or both - and if memory serves, Fallout New Vegas's development was somewhat rushed.

[Persus13]

The thing I liked about New Vegas was that it wasn't just speech skill that got used for dialogue checks. There was a ton of other skills and SPECIAL stats that got used in dialogue options. While speech still is an instant win button, (especially in the endgame) the variety of stuff used guaranteed you wouldn't be able to do all the dialogue trees with one character. That aspect alone helped make it feel like you had a lot more options then Fallout 4's succeed the speech check or fail the speech check.

[Kagus]

the variety of stuff used guaranteed you wouldn't be able to do all the dialogue trees with one character.

Except you totally could, as it was entirely possible to build your character so that every single skill would hit 100 long before the level cap.

As for the skill points dialogue trap, yeah, that was a thing. Now, mind, it's still pretty much the one singular place in the game where a dialogue skill check was actually a "bad" choice, and in fact every dialogue choice with that character besides "yes master" will lead you to the same bad end (something you won't know unless you've done it before or are following a walkthrough).

Not that it's even really a bad end though, because Dean is a rotten little dick and killing him is honestly a-okay with me.


Also you talk about "an item" as though I didn't walk out of there with every last one of the things, proceeded to sell three of them and then used the rest as decorations...

[itisnotlogical]

I think I made it out of Dead Money with two or three. Not that I ever found anybody with enough caps, ammo or other items to trade for anywhere near the full value of one of them though.

I quite like Mass Effect's Paragon/Renegade system. Early-game choices didn't have any requirements, but very important choices later in the game (and later in the series as a whole) required you to reach a certain score on either side. It meant that you had to act consistently to use it effectively, unlike KOTOR or earlier Fallouts where your character could pick and choose when to be good or evil. Of course, such a system only works for good/evil dichotomies.

... and now that I say that, I'm going to learn that I was doing things horribly inefficiently and there's some way to get 999,999,999 in both Paragon and Renegade before leaving the tutorial in the first game.

[Egan_BW]

Acting consistently one of two different ways is boring as hell. My favorite dialogue system is probably still Alpha Protocol.

[scriver]

I remember in Dead Money (you know, the one about letting go even though several players tried to ignore the lesson as hard as possible by carrying out an item that most vendors wouldn't even have the caps to fully pay you for?)

Hah, I'm such a compulsive hoarder that I hadn't even considered this point before. I too would very every single one of those out, as well as one of every kind of weapon and armour unique to this area, and every other kind of new misc item that felt meaningful and put them all in my treasure hoard I mean my underground bunker home.

My only regret is that I also weren't able to bring back the npcs, as the true treasures are the friendships we make along the way. (Cut to all the companion characters hanging out in my bunker for ever and ever and ever...). "Let go" my arse, I'll have none of that!

[Robsoie]

This could probably interest some people : i just learned that a bit more than a week ago "WCW Feel the BANG"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmosx2NZnZQ
one of the most awaited mod for old WWF No Mercy on n64 emulators finally got a release after the near 7 years of development :

http://akilive.boards.net/thread/397/wcw-ftb-version-1
you need to make an account to their board to actually see the thread unfortunately.

[itisnotlogical]

My only regret is that I also weren't able to bring back the npcs, as the true treasures are the friendships we make along the way. (Cut to all the companion characters hanging out in my bunker for ever and ever and ever...). "Let go" my arse, I'll have none of that!

I personally could do without Dean constantly telling me to sneak, right as he charges into a group of high-level enemies with his tiny, useless pistol. The Think Tank's terrible GLADOS impersonations can stay in the Big MT as well.

[scriver]

Well I'm mainly thinking about mutegirl, and I guess Doggod would do too. Dean can go die in a fire, though.

[Kagus]

Dean's recipe is ass too. Fuck his dumbshit "cocktails".

I did have one of my best Fallout moments in Dead Money, actually, but that was mainly unrelated to any of the characters or objectives.

[Persus13]

I'm probably a bit of an odd one out here, but Dead Money was probably my favorite of the DLC for New Vegas. I liked the change in style, and the new companions were interesting. I found them more interesting than some of the base game companions (no offence to Cass, Arcade, ED-E, Sniper guy who killed random muggers before I saw them, and power fist brotherhood lady).

the variety of stuff used guaranteed you wouldn't be able to do all the dialogue trees with one character.

Except you totally could, as it was entirely possible to build your character so that every single skill would hit 100 long before the level cap.

Good luck having 100 in all stats and going for the options that require you having only 1 in Intelligence to get.

Also you talk about "an item" as though I didn't walk out of there with every last one of the things, proceeded to sell three of them and then used the rest as decorations...

I usually had enough caps and other cash to buy New Vegas by the time I got to the vault in Dead Money, so frankly I never left the vault with more than 1 bar. Playing blackjack in a game where high luck means you're more likely to win is pretty fun. And once you understand how caravan works, it can make you quite a bit too.

[scriver]

Dead Money was my favorite of the DLC too. I enjoyed it pretty much thoroughly. To the point that my favourite parts of Big Mountain was the messages that relates to the Dead Money characters.

My main disappointment with it was a lack of closage regarding Powerfistgirl, her madfather, and her ex.

[Kagus]

My main disappointment with it was a lack of closage regarding Powerfistgirl, her madfather, and her ex.

This would be slightly ratified by giving Powerfistgirl some actual goddamn functional code.


But I kid... It wouldn't be a proper Fallout without horrendous and mind-boggling script fuckups.

[itisnotlogical]

IIRC, you can give Veronica a holotape found in Dead Money to get something regarding Elijah. No option to mention or talk about Christine though, which was super disappointing.

[Kagus]

IIRC, you can give Veronica a holotape found in Dead Money to get something regarding Elijah.

You can, yes. It gives her a perk, too.

She can't use the perk though, because it's made the wrong way around.

I think there was also an issue with some of the dialogue fucking up as well, where she'd think you'd kept the holotape for yourself if you gave it to her, and think you gave it to her if you kept it for yourself.