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Author Topic: Quick obsidian question  (Read 893 times)

BuGGaTon

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Quick obsidian question
« on: November 25, 2015, 10:25:01 am »

If I channel out a tile above magma and designated as a pond, when the dorf drops his 1/7 water in it where does the obsidian form? In the tile above or below?

Code: [Select]
WD1W
MMmM

W - wall
D - Dorf
1 - The dropped water
M - magma tile with a floor above it
m - magma tile with no floor above ( channelled out)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2015, 01:10:55 pm »

Neither...

Obsidianization is quirky in that if dropping on fluid into the other you have to be TWO levels above the target, i.e. you need one tile of free air in between, or both fluids will disappear and be replaced by steam. I have, however, gotten steam only sometimes when following the rule above. If one fluid is flowing down or sideways into the other obsidian forms, however.

When obsidian forms it forms at the level of the lower fluid, i.e. below, rather than in front of the dorf (if you'd gotten obsidian rather than steam). Note however that there are cases where you have 1/7 depth of a fluid on top of 7/7. In that case the 1/7 tile will be obsidianized (again, provided it doesn't turn to steam). Also note that obsidian formed will fuse with the rock above, below, or orthogonally beside it (as per anything else supported), and if not supported the newly formed rock will fall (potentially to knock a cave-in hole in the bottom of the lake you were trying to seal off, causing flooding in the cavern/cavern level/tunnel below).
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BuGGaTon

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2015, 03:28:29 pm »

Aaaaaaaahhhhh I see! I was actually just thinking about the least messy way to obsidianise magma around candy veins to make it all salvageable up to a certain point. Steam can burn, no? I've never actually hit the point of making stream despite playing for almost five years now!
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 04:14:55 pm »

Steam is generally not dangerous (magma mist is something completely different).

I've used various methods to salvage candy in the sea. The one I'm currently using is to first determine the maximum footprint of the rectangular area needed to salvage all the safe parts of it, taking into account that each level down will require the level above to extend one tile further out. The last rock level above the sea is then dug out to that shape, and a water source is connected (usually the aquifer), with a drawbridge to regulate the influx of water.
I then flood the area to a depth of 2-3 (using a door at the exit to keep the water in, if needed) and close off the water. I then have my miner channel safe parts, i.e. along candy and rock, so when the water flows down it generates obsidian that fuses sideways. If you screw up and channel such that a tile is not supported you get a cave-in with the obsidian falling. This can be lethal, and it can be "safe". This method causes me to gradually expand an outline of the rock until the whole area is obsidianized. At times more water needs to be added. For areas I can't reach (such as magma under unsafe candy), I "build" out from the areas I can reach, and then repeatedly channel down the obsidianized rock to gradually whittle away at the magma in the pocket.
Also be aware of the dangers of magma flows. They look just like magma, but any water flowing down will vanish together with the magma. A magma flow pocket with no magma left will fill up with water, however. There is a rather cumbersome technique to obsidianize magma flow as well, which I think is described on the wiki. Beware of the danger of diagonal down-up access through (up)/down staircases, though!

In the past I've built large retracting drawbridge contraptions to drop the water after I've completely channeled away all rock on a level to completely expose the magma, but I think the wet digging method is safer and easier. Since the water flowing down immediately obsidianizes the magma it's virtually impossible for magma critters to get up (but I still won't do any mining while the more dangerous kinds are about).
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BuGGaTon

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2015, 05:16:35 pm »

Brilliant. I shall take this into account.
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taptap

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2015, 06:40:59 am »

The blanket statement "you need a tile of air otherwise no obsidian" is not true, even if often repeated. E.g. a water river on z, hitting an open magma sea on z-1 obsidianizes just fine, magma suspended above a door obsidianises the wet floor on the door level just fine as well.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2015, 06:43:13 am by taptap »
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Uggh

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2015, 08:57:12 am »

What if water and magma meet horizontally? Where is the obsidian created, if any?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2015, 12:35:27 pm »

I think I did mention that flowing water did not follow the same rule as falling one, but the door case indicates there's more to it than that.

Horizontal obsidian formation happens on the tile at which the fluids meet, so 1/7 of one fluid and more of the other at a neighboring tile guarantees any obsidianization will happen at the 1/7 tile (but at the worst possible times the 1/7 tile evaporates just as the other tile is filled with the opposite fluid...). Of course, if the second fluid is free to flow in any direction, it might never flow to the 1/7 tile...
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Uggh

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2015, 06:00:27 am »

So that would mean that a tile of 7/7 magma and a tile of7/7 water could coexist next to each other indefinetely if they have no tile to flow to?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2015, 06:13:53 am »

No, both of the tiles can flow to each other, since there is none of their own fluid at the other tile (i.e. the depth is 0/7 from their perspective). The result of two 7/7 tiles beside each other would be one being obsidianized and the other remain, probably/usually with a depth of 6/7. I've never seen a case where both tiles are obsidianized, although that would be possible of all flow is computed first and obsidianization afterwards (which I don't think is the case).
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Uggh

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2015, 10:36:11 am »

That's nice, I like unpredictability and perceived randomness in the context of magma. Adds suspense.
Thanks for the explanation.
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Skorpion

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Re: Quick obsidian question
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2015, 06:24:03 pm »

What if water and magma meet horizontally? Where is the obsidian created, if any?

In that case, it's created where they meet. Steam everywhere, steam clears to reveal a cast obsidian wall.

Best to leave some space for water to drop for an obsidian farm anyway, IMO. If only because that gives a better spread.
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Elves do it in trees. Humans do it in wooden structures. Dwarves? Dwarves do it underground. With magma.