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Author Topic: DF v0.42.06 Worldgen Cookbook Thread!  (Read 49677 times)

vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #135 on: May 21, 2016, 06:07:12 pm »

It is probably possibly with perfect world or w....something-drawing program or a third tool, but I don't know how exactly to use those...And after getting lopsided results like 65 dwarves to 33k goblins (every sentient present though) with VARIED_MEDIUM from this thread, a request:

Ocean world with separate continent/island for each civ, placed so that there is a place to embark to connect a dwarven outpost to the other 4 (3, if you can't have kobold visitors I guess?) major species who previously couldn't meet (idea is that they all make their first meetings in the fortress).

Varied flora would be a bonus (tavern offering every drink imaginable :D ), reanimating biome zombie-snowballing all the visitors and animals into a giant ball of nope a malus, and for the sake of better FPS (heh, given the trees) 1 cavern plain would be just fine. 

For something a bit more small-scale, I've been wondering if you can fish, say, giant sperm whales or other sea animals - so a probably shorter term embark where I can connect murky pool, brook, ocean, river and lake for maximum fishing variety could be fascinating (preferably non-freezing as I'd rather not build a new magma sea :p).
I've tested this.  Even if there is a gap of ocean, they still meet during worldgen.  If there's more than half of the region tile filled with land, that seems to be enough for them to interact.

Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #136 on: May 22, 2016, 08:58:55 am »

*sees previously unseen worldgen thread in forum*

Wow, this is interesting....I'll be coming back to this several times, maybe this should be linked on the wiki; I can already intuit my plans being remade from the ground up.

And what's this? I'm quoted? Wish the forums had told me, but to respond to vjek:


~#&!!

I'd guess while post-gen bridgebuilding would greatly simplify, the other civs would just ignore the outpost in the center and pay attention to the ones nearest to them only, even if do series of almost-dead (retired with 1 dwarf alive) forts with no libs or abandon them to ruin?

vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #137 on: May 22, 2016, 09:43:09 am »

I created an all-ocean world with land shaped like a big + with one race on each end of the plus.

It works, you can even get an embark with all of the races as neighbors.  However, even with an adamantine tavern, and over 150M in wealth I couldn't get more than one dwarf to show up in 2 years and petition for citizenship as a performer.  Not a single human or elf.

I think the issue is primarily one of population.  You need to have quite a large population of each race, I think for them to show up.

Regarding getting them to meet for the first time, I think you would have to do it with dfhack after the fact, and I'm not sure if it would work with respect to pathing.

It's pretty straightforward to create isolated 'islands' of races, you just need to surround them with enough mountains or ocean that they won't leave their area.  The problem then becomes.. how do you get them to move afterward?  I created a plus island (as above) with mountains, and it worked, but then I could only build a fort with one race as a neighbor, instead of 3 (human, elf, goblin).

Also, all of this was done with the preset-values interface built into DF.  I didn't need to use PW at all.  Strictly speaking all PW does is populate the same entries as the PSV painter does.  If you want the worldgen, I'll be happy to provide it.

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #138 on: May 22, 2016, 10:10:17 am »

The best tavern in the world that almost nobody visits....Now that's sad, and sadly useless for the purposes of making a cultural hub, let alone making new species meet. Though,for meetings wouldn't retired/abandoned fortresses be pathable?

Albeit if your experiences repeat, perhaps not. Then at best dwarves can airdrop expeditions straight in the middle of human island and have 1 new civ contactable.

Very short histories might also affect perhaps - I'm under the impression you get more discovered topics/dances if worldgen runs for a bit. Though that also gives time for Necro towers to rise.

On the flip side, that's an interesting tutorial I'll def. try out, and I certainly saw some "balanced" worldgens earlier in this thread. If they're not meeting for the first time, I wonder if it would be possible to make ocean cutoffs to ensure maximum drive-by sieges in the central crossing point.

conflictensues

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #139 on: May 28, 2016, 07:11:56 am »

I spent a lot of time tonight trying to get my 'ideal' embark location.  I have a lot of needs so it isn't going to be easy, short of having a mod (anyone know of one?)

I want the following:
a nearby tower, plus all civs and initial peace with elves
savage neutral, dry tropical broadleaf forest
a source of water, preferably on the surface (i.e., a brook or stream)
shallow metals (iron is usually found this way), deep metals, trees, flux stone layer
25 tile or less, preferably square embark region
relatively flat embark area
a volcano
few ponds

I've had some luck after messing around with the world generator a lot, but some clarifications on a few points would help.  Namely, if a mountain zone and forest zone are present, but the embark screen shows mountain, will both types of creatures be generated or just mountain creatures?

Anyhow, here are my params in case anyone is interested or has some pointers.
Code: [Select]
[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:LARGE]
[DIM:129:129]
[EMBARK_POINTS:1504]
[END_YEAR:115]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:100:50]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:0]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
[ELEVATION:100:385:700:700] 380 is needed for mountains (dwarf homes& volcanoes).  100 is there for oceans, though I could take that out.
[RAINFALL:70:100:25:25] The wiki says >65 is good for growing forests.
[TEMPERATURE:89:90:4:4] I found that this range gets me plenty of tropical regions, though more precise settings could be better
[DRAINAGE:50:100:64:64] I think this has to do with the propensity for puddles to form?
[VOLCANISM:0:100:3200:3200] low and high settings to get sediment and igneous layers
[SAVAGERY:50:100:81:81] need some mid or lower sav squares for dwf civs to grow (but we don't want a lot)
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:1:0:10:0:1] a little low elevation for the oceans (could remove), a lot of mid elev for the forests, and a little for the mountains
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:2:1:0:0:0:1] only extremes of sediment|igneous levels to try to get them in the same region
[POLE:NONE]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:3500] 50% higher than normal to increase chance of getting metal
[MEGABEAST_CAP:32] all the fun stuff has been increased XD
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:64]
[TITAN_NUMBER:16]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:100:0:100000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:32]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:16]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:16]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:16]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:16]
[SECRET_NUMBER:32]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:32]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:32]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:16]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:16]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:2:4:8]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:16:32:64]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:1] fewer peaks because of the reduced high elevation areas (reduces rejections I think)
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:30] lots of volcanoes!
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:2048:2:2]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:256:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:512:3:3]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:100]
[RIVER_MINS:100:100]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0] want steep cliffs to get down from volcanoes to flat river areas
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
[SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:80]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:80]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:10]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:8]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:32]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:32]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:64]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:40]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
[SITE_CAP:1040]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:512:13000:256]  lots of mid-elevation
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:4160]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:4160:4160]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:4160:4160]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:4160:0:30]  only 'enough' high volcanism areas, maybe try with low volc areas maxed at like 15k?
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #140 on: May 28, 2016, 07:29:24 am »

Yes, you will get forest biome creatures. If one of them is evil, you will also get especially disgusting weather.

There are couple of results under old DF2014 thread for NECRO search (saved few from it into profiles), they will not result in exactly same stuff due version differences, but the broad strokes should be apply. Here is something that might work.

Hm...To avoid lines between "elves wiped out by necromancers/goblins/w.e." and "no necromancers", playing with history length might be useful. Might toy with from zero gen of the idea.

conflictensues

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #141 on: May 29, 2016, 06:59:15 pm »

I keep getting the 'farming civ placed without crops' response.  'Make sure your parameters have adequate vegetation.'

This is baffling me since most of the map is covered in tropical forests.  Here are my params.

Code: [Select]
[WORLD_GEN]
[TITLE:EXTREMA]
[DIM:65:65]
[EMBARK_POINTS:1504]
[END_YEAR:115]
[BEAST_END_YEAR:100:40]
[REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:0]
[CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1]
[ELEVATION:175:400:600:600]
[RAINFALL:0:100:400:400]
[TEMPERATURE:75:75:0:0]
[DRAINAGE:0:100:400:400]
[VOLCANISM:0:100:3200:3200]
[SAVAGERY:45:100:3200:3200]
[ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:2:19:0:0:0:1]
[RAIN_FREQUENCY:2:0:1:1:1:7]
[DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:2:1:1:0:0:8]
[TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
[SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:2:1:0:0:0:8]
[VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:2:15:0:0:0:1]
[POLE:NONE]
[MINERAL_SCARCITY:4000]
[MEGABEAST_CAP:8]
[SEMIMEGABEAST_CAP:16]
[TITAN_NUMBER:8]
[TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:100:0:80000]
[DEMON_NUMBER:32]
[NIGHT_TROLL_NUMBER:16]
[BOGEYMAN_NUMBER:16]
[VAMPIRE_NUMBER:16]
[WEREBEAST_NUMBER:16]
[SECRET_NUMBER:32]
[REGIONAL_INTERACTION_NUMBER:32]
[DISTURBANCE_INTERACTION_NUMBER:32]
[EVIL_CLOUD_NUMBER:16]
[EVIL_RAIN_NUMBER:16]
[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:1]
[GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:4:32:64]
[EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:7:63:127]
[PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:3]
[PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
[VOLCANO_MIN:30]
[REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:1024:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:256:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:512:0:0]
[REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:0:0:0]
[EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:0]
[RIVER_MINS:25:25]
[PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:0]
[OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:0]
[SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
[CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:80]
[CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:1]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
[CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
[HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
[LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
[CAVE_MIN_SIZE:8]
[CAVE_MAX_SIZE:32]
[MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:8]
[NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:16]
[ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
[TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:10]
[TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:15000]
[SITE_CAP:264]
[PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
[ELEVATION_RANGES:0:0:0]
[RAIN_RANGES:0:0:0]
[DRAINAGE_RANGES:0:0:0]
[SAVAGERY_RANGES:0:0:0]
[VOLCANISM_RANGES:0:0:0]
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conflictensues

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #142 on: May 29, 2016, 09:33:32 pm »

If you want to save yourself an immense amount of time and frustration, you may want to reconsider why you need the river and why you need the volcano.  It's trivial to generate a thin world with magma less than 20Z from the surface, and a partial/tiny aquifer with infinite safe water.  That is, if the goal of a river and volcano is access to fresh water and nearby magma. 
Specifically, if you embark on anything larger than a 1x1 volcano, 20Z magma below will always be closer than walking to the volcano on the surface, from the wagon. :)

Can magma be generated below the surface, but above the caverns?
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #143 on: May 29, 2016, 11:28:57 pm »

For your farming problem, it might be that you left too little water in caverns, so there's no wet soil for dwarves to farm on. Ran into that myself when I dropped water too low.

You can have magma pipe being available in up to every cavern in places without a volcano but high volcanism. So you can have magma pipe surface in cavern 1, and thus have magma above caverns 2 and 3.
Of course, the minimum height from surface to magma sea can be even lower at times (than 20), I think 12 might be possible with 1 cavern.

So I was having fun with toying with the world painter (thx vjek) and.....

Found 3 water springs leading into 1 named brook running through them o.o

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Decided a 4x4 embark to cover that entirely, frozen but it seems one source leads west while two sources make two corners of a triangle with third corner linked to brook going east. The brook's melt acted differently than snow melt, unexpected - parts of it melted later, with murky pools.

That said, I'm attempting to figure out creating open-air caverns. 400 mountain next to 98 ocean seemed like a promising idea.

Unfortunately, no success - caverns seem to favour lowest surface point rather than highest.

Caves are kinda tiny ^^. Volcanoes work, kinda. Heck, they're probably mandatory, given the original place I got the idea from.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That said, I didn't bring caverns exactly close to the surface. Oops.


Some more volcano testing:

I put 2 volcanoes in 1 elevation ocean and was surprised to learn that their peaks both ended at 123z, though top layer of magma differed in them (109 and 122).

So, capped the max elevation at 100, min at 98, painted a map of mostly ocean and genned, exploring as an adventurer in elven civ on one of the volcanoes. The elevation was far from flat, though iirc sites tend to mess up landscape (though the volcano did have some missing walls near top, resulting in magma setting the elven forest retreat on fire).

Did 5 more ocean embarks with 400 max elevation(easier to look at in fort mode), but volcanoes this time resting in 98 ocean instead of 1 ocean.
  Peak Lava
1 132 118
2 140 138
3 127 124
4 137 135
5 149 144

The islands were bigger as well, though elevations seem to act similarly to 100 grassland/forest. Thought whether the earlier case was perhaps a fluke and did 5 more 1 ocean+volcano tests:
  Peak Lava
3 138 122
4 133 131
5 140 130
6 166 158 (Forest retreat, some landscape was in lava. Those wacky elves)
7 143 141

Islands were as small as initially this time. (As an aside, it seems low oceans, even not present in the 16x16 square, tend to push the caverns lower).

Still, it seems volcano height raise is rather less random and more consistent than I thought. I previously got the impression it'd be basically random whether they're a flatland or a several-hundred z tall mountain =D

A smaller question of my own: Sometimes I see things like: two biomes, and they are both Temperate Shrubland Woodlands in Wilderness with Moderate vegetation with same elevation. While I do assume this gives me access to twice as numerous animal pool, is there a way to distinguish the two biomes post-embark?
« Last Edit: May 29, 2016, 11:34:34 pm by Fleeting Frames »
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conflictensues

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2016, 01:51:13 am »

For your farming problem, it might be that you left too little water in caverns, so there's no wet soil for dwarves to farm on. Ran into that myself when I dropped water too low.
I haven't tested this yet but there is a p good chance you nailed it (current settings, min&max==0) so many thanks!  I've actually run into that issue a few times but now I have an answer!  Sadly the magma solution isn't quite what I was looking for since it still necessitates a volcano and I'm trying to avoid igneous layers but still get what I want.  I'll try large openness settings for cavern layers and look at caverns in spaces near a volcano.  If that's a stupid idea feel free to let me know.  Your volcano research is interesting and I have a few other things I want to try now as well.
A smaller question of my own: Sometimes I see things like: two biomes, and they are both Temperate Shrubland Woodlands in Wilderness with Moderate vegetation with same elevation. While I do assume this gives me access to twice as numerous animal pool, is there a way to distinguish the two biomes post-embark?
I read a similar question at some point recently.  I believe that you are correct about the critters, but that you'd need df-hack to do what you are asking.  As an aside, you could use the plant life, since particular trees, shrubs, and so forth are supposedly limited to their biomes.  I might be wrong about that (the world generator prbly uses a mesh to apply a gradient to the differences between juxtaposed biomes [just guessing though, since that's how I'd do it]).
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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #145 on: May 30, 2016, 04:01:46 am »

Well, if you have magma pipe, I think it is probable that you have at least some igneous layers (though I haven't looked at values between 100 and 0). You might try to embark between the border of two biomes which have radically different volcanism.

And nah, biome differences are rather stark, though more detailed than the embark screen portrays them as, going down to single tiles. Sandy/beach areas and places with vegetation draw a sharp contrast, vegetation and mini-map gives a general idea and dfhack reveal utility shows that biome shapes extend below the ground to soil and stone layers.

However, I see sometimes more lines present than biomes off and on the screen of embark area, plus reveal is useless if they're the same thing. I don't mind using dfhack, but I don't know how to get the data I want.


More volcano testing, this time with world limited  between 299 and 300 elevation.

Well, turns out volcanoes don't respect that at all, so you get relatively flat areas bordered by relatively sharp (35-45° rise) mountains. Though it seems volcanos don't want to respect the landscape and jut out from the sides.
Spoiler: Such edge (click to show/hide)

At least it does get you flatland or almost flatland when embarking in the middle of a forest (still more than 1 Zs variation tho).

Hm. Wonder how my near-flat volcano in current main fort happened. Erosion, perhaps? It can destroy mountains, after all.

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #146 on: May 30, 2016, 04:25:58 am »

As it turns out I misunderstood your previous question, thinking you were referring to different biomes (I should read more carefully, pretend to sleep so my human associations don't begin to suspect the truth).  If your embark is 3x3, and the biomes truly have no gradation, doesn't that mean there are 9 'biome zones,' which can be distinguished between by area?  You prbly already thought of that though so perhaps I am missing something.

As to volcanoes, I've had pretty much the same results, but producing sedimentary layers nearby is difficult, especially when with 50 or so volcanoes only a few qualify to me (access to races, surface stream, untamed wilds, tropical any, shallow metals <this is what the sediment is for; what I'm after is iron>, flux, deep metals, small embark region <4x4 || 3x3>).  It might help to find iron in igneous layers but that takes some serious investment or DF hack, and I'm using the latest version of DF so...  A boon of being volcano free was that supposedly it'd improve my FPS.  My computer is pretty nice but I built it 3 years ago when I was graduating HS so after I have waterfalls, 200 or so dwarfs, dangerous pets, and a semi-mega project or two going I enter a mode of arcane transcendence and am able to observe the machinations of this world far faster than that at which they take place my fps starts to drop from nicely capped at 85 to something like 40 (on good days).
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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #147 on: May 30, 2016, 04:54:45 am »

I mean that the pre-embark screen shows that there are 2 different biomes behind - but when one looks at them, they have the same stats, so can't tell the difference by minimap or flora, even if the gradation should be just as sharp.

Also, looking at your earlier list, the only ones one might have trouble controlling with preset values interface (I second the tutorial vjek linked above) might be rivers (somewhat non-randomly but incomprehensibly (for me) spawned depending on drainage/rainfall, iirc), flux stone (maybe, haven't checked where it is present) and  flat + volcano (maybe? They happen somehow, at least) and perhaps getting civs to meet each other without killing each other (eh, probably solved by just using more than 1 civ of each category). At least from the viewpoint of this, I guess Adequate genner.

If you find about perfect location that only lacks iron even thought it could possibly be present in given layers, then try exporting the data and regenning with same seeds, but mineral scarcity shifted by a single point. And regarding volcanoes and FPS, I guess thin world would help improve it (beyond magma itself, anyway).

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #148 on: May 30, 2016, 05:19:04 am »

More good advise!  I did look at the tutorial after it was posted but after skimming it moved on, albeit I admit I may have been remiss in doing so and shall take another look.  Flux usually isn't the limiting factor; a little less than half the sites have it.

Do you need to know exact biome boundaries?  I meant that perhaps if the pre-embark is a 3x3, then one can count the side length (let's say 99 for argument's sake), and the biomes would then be approximately (0,0,33,33), (33,0,66,33), (66,0,99,33), etc.  It seems that the sharp gradation still has interspersed tiles or blended tiles as the wiki puts it.  That's not quite the way I would have done what I was talking about but it seems like a better way since it is ≡way less work≡.  I suppose it depends on rather a saved map is stored as a set of tags describing the composite biomes plus the individual tile information (at least for revealed areas) or not.  Actually, since one wouldn't want to generate all the hidden areas on embark, due to the associated lag and increased storage demands, it is likely that the regions are stored in the save files along with the seeds so that all this can be generated on a need-to-know basis.  You could test that by comparing save size (excluding the raws and such) before and after digging directly down to the caverns.  A small change wouldn't mean much but a third...  If it does work that way it might be interesting to play around with world params using DF hack after embark to make wonky stuff happen under the surface.

Note that if I overestimate the abilities of DF hack it's because I'm not too familiar with it, having only used it once years ago, and presume it to be something akin to forge for Minecraft (which I'm much more familiar with having written some fun mods with it myself ^.^ ).
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feelotraveller

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #149 on: May 30, 2016, 06:26:55 am »

Just to chip in - there is a DFHack tool which can be used to distinguish two biomes (even if they are of the exact same type).  I think it might be 'probe' but it is a while since I used it.  It returns a unique number for each biome.  I remember using it on a tile by tile basis to determine the exact boundary of two biomes (both apparently identical in type) one of which contained wind and the other which did not.  An interesting point to note is that biomes are actually three dimensional - the boundary can vary (slightly) between z-levels.

I'm sure a quick query in the DFHack thread would elicit more precise info than my vague memories.   ;)
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