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Author Topic: DF v0.42.06 Worldgen Cookbook Thread!  (Read 49683 times)

vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #150 on: May 30, 2016, 09:30:27 am »
I've mentioned this before, but if the goal is close access to magma and fast FPS, there's two options that have worked well for me.

The first is to generate a very thin world without any volcanism at all, and a single cavern layer.  With that, (and there are examples in the worldgen cookbook threads in all versions that I should have done) you can get magma access within 20Z of the surface.  Now, yes, it might require that you dig past the cavern layer without exposing it for FPS reasons, but it can be done.

Second way is to remove caverns entirely, and give your dwarves the surface farming trait.  That way, you can have magma in less than 10Z away.

However, unless you're embarking on the surface volcano 1x1 tile, it will always be at least 20 walking tiles away from your embark location.  My point?  You can dig down to it and it will be closer by doing so than on the surface. :)  At least, initially.

As far as keeping FPS overall fast, keep your civs to under 10, and your sites to under 5, and your world size 17x17 (pocket) with the above in mind, and FPS should not be a problem.

EDIT:  An example of what I mean...

14Z from embark to magma forges
One cavern layer, most subterranean trees
All races as neighbors (elf, dwarf, goblin, human)
Steel Friendly Embark (coal, flux, three types of iron bearing ore)
Flat Embark
Sand, Clay, Surface Water, Cave Water
No Aquifer
Hemp for cloth & paper
1000 year history (abundant and accomplished poets, musicians, instrument players)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 10:35:21 am by vjek »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #151 on: May 30, 2016, 10:59:54 am »
....Thank you, feelotraveller. That tool gives me more biomes than I expected, embarking on top of three almost perfectly alike forests.
conflictensues: There are several possible uses that I can think of - for instance, 1x1 embarks with three similar-looking biomes, or walling off the map with the single entrance at the border of two biomes, or figuring out where best to dig when looking for clay/sand/idea of the layers available on map in general.

That said, while you do have bit better FPS when they are unrevealed, each and every place underground, so long as it isn't a wall, will have life appear, populate, fight and die in even when unrevealed.
vjek: Any thoughts to share on genning caverns open to surface?

I guess this may be bit of an intellectual curiosity when one can have them within 5z of surface and cave that in, and bit more uneven surface similarly gives access to both underground and aboveground crops in one gathering zone.

(I am disappointed by caves being akin to downward passages rather than 48x48 tunnels to beneath the earth, though.)
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #152 on: May 30, 2016, 11:19:09 am »
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on May 30, 2016, 10:59:54 am
... vjek: Any thoughts to share on genning caverns open to surface?

I guess this may be bit of an intellectual curiosity when one can have them within 5z of surface and cave that in, and bit more uneven surface similarly gives access to both underground and aboveground crops in one gathering zone.

(I am disappointed by caves being akin to downward passages rather than 48x48 tunnels to beneath the earth, though.)
I have never seen them above the embark layer/level.  As in, they don't seem to form in mountains, even if those mountains are hundreds of Z-levels taller than the embark level.

I have seen caverns with paths that go from the surface to the first layer.. I've also seen demon temples that are quite tall, but those are hard to find and typically quite deep.
I may have seen surface caves with paths down to caverns?  Not certain on that one.

In the past few cookbook threads, there was some discussion around insanely tall caverns, that were dozens or hundreds of Z-levels tall rather than the typical 5-6.  I think we worked out how to reproduce them, too.

I've also seen "mostly empty" lava tubes that just don't have any lava in them.  But those are typically empty above the embark level, not below it.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #153 on: May 30, 2016, 11:41:38 am »
I once saw C1 on 92z in testing in mountains while rest of the world had c1 around -4 with other 2 right beneath. Bizarre, but not really useful is what I thought, but I might go back to it later.

Paths from surface to first layer....If they're elevated above the surface a bit and floor, up ramp and down ramp on each level till caverns, then they're caves. I suspect they block mountainhomes spawning on top of them, but seem to have no particular restriction beyond picking mountainous/non-mountainous in world gen. Probably only 1 in 16x16 square like volcanoes, though.

If you mean something wider, do mention it.

And yeah, that volcano hole screenshot I posted fits both of your last 2 paragraphs.
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Immortal-D

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #154 on: May 30, 2016, 09:56:51 pm »
For all of my playing around with WorldGen, I've never actually loaded a Seed before :-[  Do you just drop it into the world_gen.txt per usual, or does it go somewhere else?
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conflictensues

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #155 on: May 31, 2016, 12:56:05 am »
I've had some success.  After I got back today I figured before the tutorial I'd try adding a little water back to the caverns.  Sure enough the generator started working so I tightened down my constraints and checked out a world.  The first one had 3 pretty good looking locations, and two of them have flat volcanoes (as well as many of the locations I decided against)!  I've decided to go with this one...

Surface above volcano (z1)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Volcano surface (z0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Surface near river (z0)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Embark Location
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here are my parameters.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sadly I've lost the seed but the parameters should work pretty well, although you may have to hit 'c'ontinue a few times due to grassland rejections.  If there is enough interest I'll just upload the backup I made before embark.

The region is 5x3, which isn't bad.  Most of my criteria are meat; only complaint is that tower isn't in the civ list and the evil biomes are a ways away so I won't expect any necromancy shenanigans.  I suppose the other would have to be the ponds, but I'm going to mine out z1 and z0.  I'll make a small waterfall to z-2 where the river is.  There may not be iron but if that happens I'll try again.  The other 2 potential sites both had shallow metals so that's encouraging (the other flat volcano had a 2 level deep aquifer and a huge lake so I was ambivalent).  There's no way I could get prospect to work at all on 43_03 is there?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #156 on: May 31, 2016, 03:20:23 am »
@Immortal-D: The seeds go into the advanced world gen file as part of the profile you're working with. You can see how it's done and where the seeds go (if placement matters) by looking at the regionX_world_gen_parameter.txt file you get when exporting the settings for a world (on generation or from legends mode). The contents of this file can be pasted into world_gen.txt (possibly changing the name of the set to avoid conflicts, if that matters) to allow you to generate that world again (and possibly change the end date to modify the history length, for instance).
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #157 on: May 31, 2016, 06:44:23 am »
Huh, you're using mesh sizes, low elevation variance and no erosion.

Meanwhile, the flat volcano I am sitting upon was done with no mesh and maximum elevation variance, but with cliff erosion on and 250 EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT....actually, having a forest and mountain on same elevation strikes me as rather weird, come to think of it. Do biomes start from appropriate points and then spill out?

And yeah, REGION_COUNTS tend to cause rejections in my experience.

*paints a map with mountain peaks, 4 volcanoes, mountain areas and high-elevation plant area, then sets erosion to 500/erode cliffs*

....Having the mountain area get eroded to ocean, but not the plant area is surprising.

But I guess volcanoes seem to override erosion and restore initial height or past it? *embarks on four fuckoff cliffs* and mountain eroded to ocean overrides even cliff smoothing - but perhaps not lava surface *looks at magma sea spilling into the volcano*
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conflictensues

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #158 on: May 31, 2016, 02:06:12 pm »
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on May 31, 2016, 06:44:23 am
Huh, you're using mesh sizes, low elevation variance and no erosion.

Meanwhile, the flat volcano I am sitting upon was done with no mesh and maximum elevation variance, but with cliff erosion on and 250 EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT....actually, having a forest and mountain on same elevation strikes me as rather weird, come to think of it. Do biomes start from appropriate points and then spill out?

Mesh sizes let me control the frequency of different values so it works pretty well for finding the ranges I want.  I added cliff erosion to test it but it didn't seem to change anything.  I embarked on a map with steep slopes and a volcano to check if it did something weird there and the volcano was actually at z0!  The slopes were also mostly gone; only a thin strip (5 tiles maybe) bordered the rim extending 3 or 4 z above it.  I'm not sure why that happened since I would have guessed erosion would behave differently.

Forests have to be on low or mid elevation, the prior existing at z 100-299.  Mountains have to be on high elevation.

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on May 31, 2016, 06:44:23 am
And yeah, REGION_COUNTS tend to cause rejections in my experience.

I try to make regions large enough to allow access to lots of civilizations (too small forces mountain cutoffs for elves and other races), but still small enough so that the good&evil region spread don't go overboard.  When I was testing before I tried setting those as low as 3 or 4 and they'd grow to cover most of the map!  Hence, exists the mid-variance-per-mesh size and forced-plethora-of-biome type.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 02:08:11 pm by conflictensues »
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asdguy00

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #159 on: June 02, 2016, 08:39:17 am »
**FOR 43.03**

Generated a custom world, embarked on a site, and found that it has some amazing, epic features, including: 3 major and a minor river intersecting, the largest major river producing a 16+ z-level waterfall into an enormous canyon, and two tall cliffsides, one next to, the other inbetween the rivers. Has sand, clay, a generous amount of obsidian near the surface, marble in the lower left area, a lot of trees and some potatoes and blueberries.

All trees are larch
The rivers freeze from mid-autumn to mid-spring, helping the FPS and water project construction.

Screenshot of the top of the waterfall, and the cliffs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here are the worldgen raws (43.03):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Here is the location on the world map:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 08:41:37 am by asdguy00 »
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #160 on: June 02, 2016, 11:36:14 am »
Quote from: conflictensues on May 31, 2016, 02:06:12 pm
Forests have to be on low or mid elevation, the prior existing at z 100-299.  Mountains have to be on high elevation.
Well, it seems some forests or mountains didn't hear that.

And a thing about region counts is I've seen it throw "NOT ENOUGH X Squares" when I clearly see that many squares present on generation, so I consider it kinda weird and bit unnecessary.

@asdguy: Huh, though I've seen it before still surprising to see regional volcanoes not visible on world map. Only see 1 of the 15!
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asdguy00

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #161 on: June 02, 2016, 06:38:44 pm »
Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 02, 2016, 11:36:14 am
Quote from: conflictensues on May 31, 2016, 02:06:12 pm
Forests have to be on low or mid elevation, the prior existing at z 100-299.  Mountains have to be on high elevation.
Well, it seems some forests or mountains didn't hear that.

And a thing about region counts is I've seen it throw "NOT ENOUGH X Squares" when I clearly see that many squares present on generation, so I consider it kinda weird and bit unnecessary.

@asdguy: Huh, though I've seen it before still surprising to see regional volcanoes not visible on world map. Only see 1 of the 15!

Yep, I first did a separate thread with just the save

Also, try turning all the minimum biome low/high value parameters to 0, will prevent a LOT of rejections
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conflictensues

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #162 on: June 02, 2016, 06:44:23 pm »
That bit about mountains and forests 'not hearing' this or that can probably be attributed to terrain averaging or some other likely nonsense.  I dunno about rejections when enough squares are present though.
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Polymorph

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #163 on: June 04, 2016, 01:08:07 am »
Quote from: vjek on May 30, 2016, 09:30:27 am
I've mentioned this before, but if the goal is close access to magma and fast FPS, there's two options that have worked well for me.

The first is to generate a very thin world without any volcanism at all, and a single cavern layer.  With that, (and there are examples in the worldgen cookbook threads in all versions that I should have done) you can get magma access within 20Z of the surface.  Now, yes, it might require that you dig past the cavern layer without exposing it for FPS reasons, but it can be done.

Second way is to remove caverns entirely, and give your dwarves the surface farming trait.  That way, you can have magma in less than 10Z away.

However, unless you're embarking on the surface volcano 1x1 tile, it will always be at least 20 walking tiles away from your embark location.  My point?  You can dig down to it and it will be closer by doing so than on the surface. :)  At least, initially.

As far as keeping FPS overall fast, keep your civs to under 10, and your sites to under 5, and your world size 17x17 (pocket) with the above in mind, and FPS should not be a problem.

EDIT:  An example of what I mean...

14Z from embark to magma forges
One cavern layer, most subterranean trees
All races as neighbors (elf, dwarf, goblin, human)
Steel Friendly Embark (coal, flux, three types of iron bearing ore)
Flat Embark
Sand, Clay, Surface Water, Cave Water
No Aquifer
Hemp for cloth & paper
1000 year history (abundant and accomplished poets, musicians, instrument players)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Can someone make one almost identical to this, except with a normal world's number of z-levels? Or even better, tell me what to tweak to adjust total z-levels so I can do that myself.
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conflictensues

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Re: DF v0.42.02+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread!
« Reply #164 on: June 04, 2016, 02:54:33 am »
Quote from: Polymorph on June 04, 2016, 01:08:07 am
Can someone make one almost identical to this, except with a normal world's number of z-levels? Or even better, tell me what to tweak to adjust total z-levels so I can do that myself.

The short answer is that it can't really be done reliably.  There is a set order: 3 caverns, then the magma sea.  The caverns can be eliminated and the 'z levels above' settings changed to raise the magma sea.  Setting volcanism to 0 in the volcanism setting will eliminate that.  The problem becomes getting the number of z levels you want.  Under the magma sea is
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The space between there and the magma sea I think can be specified http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/v0.34:Advanced_world_generation#Z_Levels_.28Depth.29_Settings, but according to the wiki is probably p buggy.
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