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Author Topic: Making and running good forum games. How to?  (Read 27947 times)

Transcendant

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #180 on: June 18, 2016, 07:20:57 pm »

Ok, I can tell you're smart, because half the time I don't understand some of the stuff you say. Can you give us some workable examples please?
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NJW2000

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #181 on: June 19, 2016, 04:34:47 am »

1)Building a longboat gonna take, say, eighty days, 60 with Elvish carpenters from the refugee camp to help.

2)If people roll int well, it could take up to 20% less time, if they roll int badly, 20% more.

3)You gotta know where the logs come from
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Truean

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #182 on: July 02, 2016, 12:39:00 pm »

Specific workable examples need systems and numbers we don't have. I can generalize. Land, labor, etc, matter. Abstraction required.

Needs (Very basic):
Each person needs 1 food unit per day.

Approach 1: Project with inputs:

Inputs/requirements:
Land: +8 ( +4 Productiveness, +2 irrigation, +2 Fertilizer)
Labor: +7 (+3 Skill, +2 Tools, +2 Morale Bonus) (Assumes one person working only)
/Time: +15 Per turn

Outputs:
End goal: produce 1000 food per field area.
Total Labor Requirement: 1000 (you can increase or decrease to reflect task / circumstance difficulty)
Total Time Requirement: 1 season (you can't pull this task off (harvest) more than once a growing season)

Assuming the above, this one person (w/skills & circumstances above) needs 66 2/3 turns working this field to get 1000 units of food (feeding about 2.7 for a year). Standardize your turn length (1 day/turn, or 4 hours/turn, whatever). If you want more food, add better mods like infrastructure or tools to boost the numbers, or employ more people (labor).

Random variable bonuses and penalties can be added like weather, etc. Better fields/climates may have more than one growing season (2 harvests, etc).

Also, a farm may have multiple fields. Meaning this person/farm could end up feeding far more than 1.7 other people (assuming all other things equal).

If a turn is 4 hours (6 turns a day, 2 for labor, 2 for leisure, 2 for sleep), that means 33 1/3 days of labor fills the quota for 1000 food.
If a turn is a day that means 66 2/3 days for the quota for 1000 units of food.

Remember Multiple fields on a farm being a thing?

Assume this farm has 4 fields total:

4 hour turns: 133.2 days to labor in all 4 fields  for 1000 units of food.
1 day turns: 266.4 days to labor in all 4 fields for 1000 units of food.

If the farmer has 4 fields producing 1000 units of food each, then that means this feeds 10.96 people for a year (4000/365) and is a pretty efficient system. Factor that into your population.... You need 91.24 farms like this to feed 1000 people. That's a better than 10 to 1 ratio of how many farmers/farms like this you need to support food need for a place (village/city/etc). Keeping in mind that building the farm and infrastructure also are tasks requiring labor, materials, etc. You end up with a pretty comprehensive system allowing for multiple variables to be taken into account. Of course, you could just say each farm produces X food and that feeds Y number of people, but no thanks.

The way this method works, you can basically keep a "character sheet" for the whole thing tucked away something like this:

TavenFields Farm: (Insert Region/District Name for location purposes)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: July 02, 2016, 12:59:58 pm by Truean »
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Transcendant

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #183 on: July 04, 2016, 08:01:59 pm »

That was surprisingly a lot more helpful actually.

Ok, so if I make a forum game or anybody does, what are you trying to accomplish? It feels kinda hollow these days, or is it just me?

I thought I wanted to give the players a nice story and a sense of accomplishment. No?

Ideas?
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Flying Dice

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #184 on: July 05, 2016, 01:30:54 am »

For something like that, you probably want a more directed narrative sort of game. Quest-style, basically, instead of a freeform, generic RPG, Sim Whatever, &c. Basically a CYOA with voting on key actions, where the main burdens on the GM are being a good writer and being able to correctly balance the granularity of player control to a happy medium that's neither tedious micromanagement nor a functional lack of control.

I think we talked about this back when the thread was younger, that your players are usually not going to be particularly invested in your game if you aren't. So pick a setting you like, if you feel like your writing skills are decent, and give players a couple options to choose from for their character. Could make it an extant character if your grasp of them is good, could be a non-canon character who fits the setting if you want a bit more independence in how you structure the path of the story.

The important thing is to make sure it's something that you are going to enjoy running and that players will enjoy participating. I've never really liked the generic management FGs precisely because they don't invest anyone--most of the good ones that stay alive use some combination of a character-driven narrative, an existing media setting, and an existing rules system. It's why you see so many CKII-styled quest/management FGs popping up in the past could years, it's a great concept for a game system that hits all those notes when paired with... basically anything that involves stuff going on above the individual level.

Concentrate on the specifics of making a good story (i.e. competent writing, logical sequences of events, the world operating outside of the players' perspective) and try to herd the players away from stupidity without forcing them to do things exactly as you want. The set-up is where you make that all easier to accomplish by offloading a lot of the behind-the-scenes work and excising apathy due to unfamiliarity and/or complexity.
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Truean

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #185 on: July 11, 2016, 09:37:43 pm »

Some interesting combat, 'cause you asked. Three words: "longer combat rounds." 2 minutes for a 9 hour walk; 2 hours for a 2 minute fight? No thanks.

I once ran a sword-master game (custom basically everything):

Essentially stringing multiple "rounds" together to save time / be more real. Life doesn't allow 6 second interval micromanaging. Let's say hypothetically each round is about 1 minute (many fights in real life don't last this long). This allows a unique way to use "Action Points" (AP). Essentially, you can add more modifications (perhaps called "modifications") to the minute long round if you have more AP. AP is based on skill, dexterity, and perhaps perception. Better Abilities will cost more AP usually.

Combatant A fights Combatant B, the first long round starts off with something like this (simplified). Combatant A has 40 AP; Combatant B has 35 AP. However combat is determined, this means Combatant A can apply more modifications to his or her advantage. This will add positive modifiers to both combatants, and probably more to A's than B's chances....

AP also deals with tactical movement, both in the beginning and throughout the fight. Initially, melee combatants will have to close to melee range to melee fight with one another. (Ranged combatants don't worry about this as much). The GM tells players the distance to close to melee; the player spends action points to close that distance (Example Tactical movement costs "Combatant A" 5 AP to move 9 feet (based on dex and skill etc). His opponent is about 15 feet away and he needs to move that distance to start melee, that'll cost him about 10 AP in his first surprise round. Certain upgrades (like "Charge") will allow Combatant A to avoid spending this AP (run a certain distance to melee range without spending AP).

The same thing can happen throughout the fight as players can move away from other combatants, spending their AP to tactically fall back or maneuver around combatants. This will effectively force enemies to spend their AP to chase them to maintain melee range. Faster, mobile players may be able to exploit this maneuverability against slower ones. Conversely, being injured / exhausted may make this more difficult / AP costly and in severe situations impossible.

In practice, it's AP resource management and spending of AP:

Combatant A and Combatant B have multiple modifications. They focus on the sword. Let's say:

(5 AP) Overhand Strike: (+1 to hit; +3 to damage) Uses gravity to bring a strike down, often painfully.
(5 AP) Uppercutting Slash: (+2 to hit; +2 to damage) Striking upwards, against gravity and opponent's expectations/defenses.
(2 AP) Quick Stab: (+2 to hit) Short, to the point sword thrust. Quick and often effective.
(8 AP) Spinning Feign Cut: (+4 to hit; +2 to damage) Repeatedly changes angle of attack before striking
(4 AP) Pommel Strike: (+3 to to hit) Unexpectedly strike with the weapon's opposite end.
(10 AP) Focused Strike: (+5 to hit; +4 to damage) Concentrating on fewer, better strikes.
(2 AP) Defensive strike: (-2 to opponent's to hit you) Focusing on protecting yourself rather than hitting others
(5 AP) Mobile Strike: Put your speed distance between yourself and attackers (move in combat)

One word: Swordplay.

Sick of "I hit so and so?" I am. Want to use better weapon combat with actual combat consequences and better story? Simplified:

Round one: Sword duel, with combatants starting right next to one another:

Combatant A: 40 AP/ round. Choosing his desired moves:

(5 AP) Overhand Strike: (+1 to hit; +3 to damage)
(2 AP) Quick Stab (+2 to hit)
(4 AP) Pommel Strike: (+3 to to hit)
(2 AP) Defensive strike: (-2 to opponent's to hit you)
(10 AP) Focused Strike: (+5 to hit; +4 to damage)
(4 AP) Pommel Strike: (+3 to to hit)
(4 AP) Pommel Strike: (+3 to to hit)
(2 AP) Quick Stab: (+2 to hit)
(2 AP) Defensive strike: (-2 to opponent's to hit you)
(5 AP) Uppercutting Slash: (+2 to hit; +2 to damage)
{40 AP spent, total +21 to hit; +9 to damage ... assuming hits, and -2 to opponent's to hit}

Combatant B: 35 AP/ round. Choosing his desired moves (If handled by GM, you might not know about these):
(2 AP) Quick Stab (+2 to hit)
(2 AP) Quick Stab (+2 to hit)
(2 AP) Quick Stab (+2 to hit)
(8 AP) Spinning Feign Cut: (+4 to hit; +2 to damage)
(4 AP) Pommel Strike: (+3 to to hit)
(5 AP) Uppercutting Slash: (+2 to hit; +2 to damage)
(5 AP) Overhand Strike: (+1 to hit; +3 to damage)
(2 AP) Quick Stab: (+2 to hit)
(5 AP) Uppercutting Slash: (+2 to hit; +2 to damage)
{35 AP spent, total +18 to hit; +9 to damage ... assuming hits}

Can you construct a fight sequence out of that? I can. Better yet, the player can seriously contribute and significantly effect decisions. Yeah, it's more numbers, but it lets you customize how you fight with literal moves and meaningful numbers helping your chances. Note, this used a version of my custom opposed rolls system.

Example Description:
"A" lifts his sword overhead, cutting down before thrusting the blade, then the hilt at "B"'s face. Seeing "B" rapidly stab at him, "A" defends with blade and evasion. The two face off as B rapidly moves failing to distract A's Focus. Both thrust hilts at each other's faces; A twice; B once. A stabs quickly while B tries to strike from above, followed by his own stab, which A parries. Both try to raise blades from below to strike the other; A successes at B's arm; B misses."

Note: This would depend on how the "to hit" rolls fell. Also, perhaps consider limiting the amout of modifications (moves) a player can use per longer round based on level / skill. Also, there are usually rules saying you can't repeatedly use the same modification (move) over and over again in a row (or your opponent will see through this and get a bonus against you for your predictability. Every round can and should be different, easily. If you focus exclusively on damage, you will be less likely to hit if your opponent focuses on accuracy (to hit), and vice versa. You're gambling, unless you somehow know what your opponent will do beforehand. Conversely, Different schools of swordplay will develop combos and those combos will have additional bonuses.

Point being, the player is allowed to make detailed combat decisions that will actually speed up combat rounds by condensing them.... The choices will be made in groupings, and just like the real world, things must roll with the punches. You won't know for sure how things will work out beforehand, but you may be able to influence the chances.... You can be more complicated as long as it's fun and actually matters. I want that instead of "derp, I swing my sword."
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Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Transcendant

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #186 on: July 11, 2016, 10:34:08 pm »

Holy shit.
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Truean

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #187 on: July 12, 2016, 10:39:26 am »

Um, would that be a good, "holy shit," or a bad one, or ...?
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Transcendant

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #188 on: July 12, 2016, 11:49:25 am »

Good

That's pretty amazing, actually. Do you have your own system and everything? Seems complicated but interesting. So I'd just slot in as many sword moves or whatever as I could afford in action points and each one helps me somehow?
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #189 on: July 12, 2016, 12:09:11 pm »

Good

That's pretty amazing, actually. Do you have your own system and everything? Seems complicated but interesting. So I'd just slot in as many sword moves or whatever as I could afford in action points and each one helps me somehow?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
10/10 would play game with this system.
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Digital Hellhound

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #190 on: July 12, 2016, 02:17:03 pm »

Hey, Truean, I was wondering. Why don't you post these in Gaming Block? It's pretty much meant for this kind of thing, and I think you could get a lot more comments and views there if you're looking for any. I don't mean to pressure or anything - there's no obligation to use it, but I'm so used to the place that seeing this thread always makes me go a bit 'huh?'.

The swordfighting system is really cool and reminds me of a similar system by monk12, way back sometime. I don't think he developed it further, though. I can see some further additions to spice things up, too; different weapons or abilities increasing or lowering AP costs of different attacks, for example. A rapier would be better suited for quick stabs and other fast attacks, while faring poorly in defense. A heavily armoured combatant might suffer increased AP costs across the board as the cost to increased protection. Add the different schools of swordplay, combos, starting stances, maybe customized attacks (Charging Bear Strike! +5 to damage, +2 to enemy's to hit) or so, and you'll have delightful variety and tactical elements in what you'll do.
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Truean

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #191 on: July 14, 2016, 10:07:36 am »

Hum, thank you for the suggestion.

May post there. Don't know. Mainly helping here, because I know Transcendent. I actually have all my stuff worked out (and IPed), it's just probably too complicated for most people. I already have moves / numbers for different weapons and pairings of weapons / shield. Also "Styles" are where moves are strung together in certain combinations for different effects, etc. Similar to spells actually, etc.

I dunno maybe.

I actually consider not making the rules public for several reasons (IP, etc), because I don't want people minmaxing the heck out of it. I'm ok with using some information to alter the numbers behind things. That's actually a good point sometimes, because you're trying to shape behavior. (Please don't charge an enemy headlong when there are elevated position fortifications, traps, ranged weapons and ammo right there for you to use and complain when they beat you. It's right in front of you man.) So there's that "encouragement" part vs. just doing whatever boosts you into the high atmosphere.... Not "railroading" either, but don't complain when the werewolf kills and eats you because you purposefully didn't pick up the silver bullets or weapons or whatever. Where to draw line?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 10:19:09 am by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

TheBiggerFish

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #192 on: July 14, 2016, 10:49:20 pm »

IP???  As in patent/copyright?
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Sanctume

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #193 on: July 15, 2016, 12:29:53 pm »

IP as is intellectual property. 

Truean

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Re: Making and running good forum games. How to?
« Reply #194 on: July 15, 2016, 03:36:18 pm »

[shrugs] I'm not going to be crazy about it or anything, but yeah. So? I mean I always wanted to be a games designer in college, and o god I can't believe that was, very depressingly, an amount of time easily much more than 10 years ago now.... That just hit me like a ton of bricks. Wow, I feel old. Are you really that surprised? I mean, didn't it seem just a little odd that I had multiple complex systems with numbers and real ways of doing things all readily available all the time? That I could basically invent them on the fly, and we're talking things that had nothing at all to do with D20 or any established system? It was a hobby and I'm talking before computerized RPGs were really much of a thing or anything near like they are now. Maybe one day I might be able to release something even, who knows?

I come here to help a couple of people out with some tweaks and I've done it for some forum games before. I'd see somebody get frustrated because the players took things in a direction the person running it just didn't anticipate at all. That random person was running a nice little game and it was doing ok, but then bam, completely unexpected thing that broke it.

Sad really, because some kids were having some fun and then just total curve ball nobody knew how to catch. I caught it for the guy running things and the game went on. O there have been all sorts of examples over the years man. There was a really good simplified spaceship game where out of nowhere the one player with all the mechanical abilities wanted to make a bunch of combat robots and start sending them into something like ground force melee combat or something. You could just tell that it floored this poor GM, because he clearly meant it as a game about spaceships based on ship to ship combat with maybe a couple of fighter craft but mostly large ships. The mechanical skill player was basically supposed to be used to give the big spaceship bonuses (to whatever, think Scotty or Geordi from Trek as a role), and then out of nowhere, "I mass produce combat robots...." ??? I just improvised a scaling system for him to use to represent the overzealous mechanic's "let me build a robot invasion army and concur everything." The game went on for 2 more years after that and I wonder if I can find it.... Was a good read.
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.
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