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Poll

Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion/debate?

Yes
- 21 (27.3%)
No
- 45 (58.4%)
Not decided entirely, maybe
- 11 (14.3%)

Total Members Voted: 76


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Author Topic: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?  (Read 27323 times)

Reelya

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2015, 12:49:27 am »

While I agree that stuff is toxic and stifling, I'm not sure how much of that can be pinned on the internet directly instead of the current climate in universities with progressive students wanting to censor a whole lot of ideas. Although the college climate and internet could be feeding back on each other.

Basically can't discuss anything because someone or other might get triggered. Let's take that back a step, if you can't deal with the discussions that come up in a particular class, maybe just drop out or do a different course rather than disrupt the learning for everyone else.

Imagine me as a male, signing up for a women's studies course and then saying I'm triggered because of some relationships I had with women who were abusive, so i don't want the class to bring up specific topics. Rather than sensitivity or understanding, I'd see it as more likely that I'd become the target of actual verbal abuse in the class, have feminist students or even the lecturer walk out, or demand I leave the course for being disruptive. Hell, I've heard the abuse feminists who bring up male domestic violence victims receive, so I can imagine if you're bringing that up inside a feminist class you're going to get pilloried.

 So, rather than a blanket protection for fragile people it's clear than "triggered" only works for a pre-selected list of things you're "allowed" to be traumatized. It's basically a codified and politicized list of approved traumas, such as being bullied on Twitter, but not including being beaten up by a spouse ... if that spouse happens to be female.

That would be my main issue with the "triggered" concept. It's bullshit unless you either take everyone's life traumas seriously and objectively set the level of sensitivity you're going to apply, you don't have an approved list of allowed things you can claim to be triggered by and mock people who don't fit your ideology.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 12:54:00 am by Reelya »
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wierd

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #46 on: December 16, 2015, 01:02:15 am »

The evil bastard in me says that at least some of that comes from society giving perks or protections to people it sees as victims, and thus in need of heavy handed protection/assistence.

For instance, I am of jewish descent. I lost relatives in europe to the nazis and in the ukraine from stalin.
Many people like me, who have grown up in an era where such terrors are things from history books, expect to get a "get out of argument free" card when it comes to things like the holodomor or the holocaust.

I dont. it's bullshit. There is nothing inherently requiring sympathy about being of jewish descent. The lesson that needed to be learned from those tragedies is to not allow a government to pin all its problems on an ethnic group. (looking at YOU, conservative warmongering ass weasles. Stop equating people in the middle east with terrorism. it makes about as much sense as the nazi popaganda against jews.) Yet instead of seeing more people like me (ethnic background) calling out the patterns of culture that caused these horrors, we instead see the enshrinement of victim culture.

No. No. No. A million times NO.



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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #47 on: December 16, 2015, 01:09:56 am »

Hang on, is this a meta-debate?

Yes it is...

Also, PTW.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #48 on: December 16, 2015, 07:22:38 am »

.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2016, 09:52:47 am by penguinofhonor »
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TempAcc

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2015, 08:12:46 am »

The enshrinement of victim culture is something that has always kind of existed in societies, but it has taken a very malicious turn in the modern world. This phenomenon was/still is (ironically) used to bring about conditions favourable to the rise of totalitarist governments. Hell, both fascism and specially communism rose up from victim culture.

The very basis of Marxism is victim culture. Hell, Marx himself can be seen as the ultimate SJW stereotype, as he himself was a very rich and privileged college rat who leeched off his friend and never worked or owned a company in his entire life, and would've never been affected by anything concerning working class people, and yet he managed to distort his image to the point that he became seen as some sort of savior of the proletariat, through the magic of victim culture. This in turn would allow for one of the most terrible totalitarian regimes in history to come about.

It can be still seen today as a shady electoral/political tactic. A political figure latches on to a minority or dissatisfied group and then continously feeds their resentment towards the majority, making sure to further separate them from what is considered "mainstream" society. He then starts influencing intellectuals in universities, which quickly creates a significant group of impressionable but influent young minds who will then spread his ideas to the younger generation. Over time, you create a society in which a large chunk of it is dedicated to those ideas, and anything that is not in favor of these ideas is seen as injustice, opressive and whatever other evil adjectives you can tack on it. Combine this with political propaganda and you have yourself quite a basis for the rise of a new political order that can basically do anything it wants, even things that it supposedly condemns, since it can easily justify it as "for the cause" and being against the supposed evil, opressive majority, instead of the suffering minority it claims to represent. This behavior is rewarded by the group in question once it starts to gain political leverate, by attempting to create legal advantages and benefits for people of the minority groups it claims to represent, under the guise of social justice. This goes on for some years.

Some time later, insults and construction of stereotypes become acceptable against anything that does not conform to said group's ideas. Once the group rises to power, it starts to slowly push out any opposition, eventualy using censure and other underhanded means. With a few more years, you got yourself a de facto dictatorship going on, under the guise of a "benevolent ruler" from the oh so great political party that does everything it can to claim that it represents the intentions and rights of the poor, opressed people. Once it has enough power over society, it'll even go as far as to rewrite history books, painting every government before the current one as some sort of saturday morning cartoon villain, and the current government/ruler as a messianic savior figure.

Thus, you have Venezuela, Bolivia, North Korea, Soviet Union, and many others. I know this argument is kind of a huge slippery slope, but this is something people need to be aware of at all times, and why you should be wary of any government that likes to be large and in charge under the guise of representing the poor/opressed/etc.
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Frumple

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #50 on: December 16, 2015, 08:20:33 am »

You heard it here, folks. People trying to help other people leads to the USSR. Clearly, all poor people, minorities, and various groups facing discrimination and/or oppression must die of exposure to prevent this horrible fate. Do your part to fight the SJW menace! Shoot a hobo today!
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TempAcc

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #51 on: December 16, 2015, 08:26:04 am »

You heard it here, folks. People trying to help other people leads to the USSR. Clearly, all poor people, minorities, and various groups facing discrimination and/or oppression must die of exposure to prevent this horrible fate. Do your part to fight the SJW menace! Shoot a hobo today!

Good job with that strawman and actualy proving one of my points :v
There is actual discrimination and even hatred towards minorities, and such things need to be dealt with. However, shits starts hitting the fan once political groups start using it as an excuse to gain power. In fact, I'm pretty sure most charities and support structures geared towards minorities are situated in places in which the government has little say on these things, rather then, uh, Venezuela.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2015, 08:32:09 am by TempAcc »
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Frumple

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #52 on: December 16, 2015, 08:33:08 am »

We seem to have suddenly reached the point of starting to build them en masse, so I figured I might as well throw another into the pile.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #53 on: December 16, 2015, 08:34:01 am »

You heard it here, folks. People trying to help other people leads to the USSR. Clearly, all poor people, minorities, and various groups facing discrimination and/or oppression must die of exposure to prevent this horrible fate. Do your part to fight the SJW menace! Shoot a hobo today!
A  concerted effort by the government to force cultural change.

Flying Dice

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2015, 09:12:40 am »

I don't want to shoot anyone, but if I were going to, I'd much rather shoot a self-aggrandizing bigoted university student sheltering their hatred beneath the aegis of progressivism than a homeless person.
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Neonivek

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #55 on: December 16, 2015, 09:41:12 am »

I seriously have often wondered what it is about "being offended!!" that drives people to always FIND something to be offended over.

It is a result of their upbringing. School actively teaches us that "Ohh the world was this terrible place where non-white males lived terrible lives until someone stepped up from the shadows and challenged that belief... But even today things suck! will you step up?"
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #56 on: December 16, 2015, 09:46:46 am »

2-cents for the original post:

I think that because people perceive that they can be heard so much more easily now that there's no real sense of crisis or urgency and that in turn allows us all to believe that there's no real need to engage in the philosophical politics like we have in the past. Of course, it's not all the Internet's fault, really it's a result of the age of mass media. Not to mention that the internet is so vast that the good stuff gets buried really easily.
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Bohandas

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #57 on: December 16, 2015, 09:57:07 am »

You heard it here, folks. People trying to help other people leads to the USSR. Clearly, all poor people, minorities, and various groups facing discrimination and/or oppression must die of exposure to prevent this horrible fate. Do your part to fight the SJW menace! Shoot a hobo today!


No no no. Shoot a social justice warrior.
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TempAcc

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #58 on: December 16, 2015, 09:59:36 am »

I don't want to shoot anyone, but if I were going to, I'd much rather shoot a self-aggrandizing bigoted university student sheltering their hatred beneath the aegis of progressivism than a homeless person.

You heard it here, folks. People trying to help other people leads to the USSR. Clearly, all poor people, minorities, and various groups facing discrimination and/or oppression must die of exposure to prevent this horrible fate. Do your part to fight the SJW menace! Shoot a hobo today!


No no no. Shoot a social justice warrior.

These^
Don't actualy shoot anyone btw
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On normal internet forums, threads devolve from content into trolling. On Bay12, it's the other way around.
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Frumple

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Re: Does the Internet discourage intellectual discussion and debate?
« Reply #59 on: December 16, 2015, 10:07:28 am »

Nah, if I were going to shoot people involved in that nonsense, I'd be shooting the ones that are complaining about it. I can actually find large numbers of those in driving distance. Rabid SJW stereotypes barely exist outside the internet (or on it, really), but people frothing about political correctness and whatnot are literally down the street in numbers that require more than fingers and toes to count.
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