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Author Topic: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information  (Read 39426 times)

Bouchart

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #120 on: January 13, 2016, 10:41:43 am »

Organizer is another scholar skill and it's trivially easy to train.
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martinuzz

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #121 on: January 13, 2016, 10:48:26 am »

Third, military dwarves assigned to the library mostly discuss naturalist topics like foraging and water cycle. I have not seen them branch off into other topics yet, so I'm not sure how effective they would be at starting a library.
My military captains / naturalists mainly discuss social behaviour.
I think the term naturalist has nothing to do with 'nature'. I think it just imples that they are 'natural' scholars, because of their teacher / perhaps student skill, but lack of any other scholarly skill. I expect them to switch profession names as soon as they meet requirements for any, which I can't confirm yet since they're all still dabblers in a few scholar skills after years of spending half of the year in library.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 10:50:50 am by martinuzz »
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cochramd

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #122 on: January 13, 2016, 10:49:22 am »

I'm actually having trouble training the Recordkeeper skill. I set my precision to the highest possible setting ages ago and swapped out bookkeepers once I got all my counts accurate, but the new bookkeeper hasn't gained any experience in Recordkeeper. Also, is there anything I can do to get a dwarf talking about mathematics other than buying skills at embark? It doesn't make sense to me that my engineers will never talk about math.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2016, 11:28:37 am by cochramd »
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Niddhoger

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #123 on: January 13, 2016, 01:56:49 pm »

I'm actually having trouble training the Recordkeeper skill. I set my precision to the highest possible setting ages ago and swapped out bookkeepers once I got all my counts accurate, but the new bookkeeper hasn't gained any experience in Recordkeeper. Also, is there anything I can do to get a dwarf talking about mathematics other than buying skills at embark? It doesn't make sense to me that my engineers will never talk about math.

Well, how many new items have you created? If the stocks aren't changing , there would be no need to update them. And just to clarify, you DID assign the new guy the old one's office, right? Or set up a new one if the old guy is still your manager?

Also, books written in a player fortress can be transferred to other fortresses in the same world, via caravan! My first scholar-fort was created out of an extinct civilization.  They had no existing sites, but a king generated in a goblin-controlled city when I embarked.  The point is, I was never gaining any codices through trade from the caravan.  Feeling sheepish, I created dozens of copies and kept unloading them on the caravan, hoping I could spread knowledge.  When I start a new fort in the same world, the first caravan brings a single book. When I examined it, it was called "In Pursuit of the Journey to Searportals" Written in Searportals by the dwarf "scholar" mesharn.... the point is, its a book about a book about the journey of a migrant to my last fortress.  The nickname was even preserved. I distinctly remember it being written for two reasons: It was one of hte only books written in my fort (Searportals, naturally); and I thought it was silly (and sad) he had so little to write about, that he wrote a book about writing his other book.  They were mostly drafted migrants, and most of them became historians and talked about source reliability.

Now, I actually believe caravan items are destroyed when they leave the map.  The book was also bound in orthoclase, and all of my copies were bound in brass iirc.  A few of hte originals had gabbro bindings... but I don't think I ever even dug up ortho on that embark.  This could be apart of an earlier bug (generated books/bindings have incorrect materials), but it could mean the book is counted among those available to my civilization, so the caravans stocked them.  My last embark never became the mountainhome, though (export wealth bug and king generated off-site, young too). 

Anyways, I just thought I'd share that books generated in a player fortress can be spread to other fortresses.  I don't know if they can make their way into other civilizations, or if they only get shuffled about in-house, but I did find it interesting.
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cochramd

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #124 on: January 13, 2016, 02:55:33 pm »

Well, how many new items have you created? If the stocks aren't changing , there would be no need to update them. And just to clarify, you DID assign the new guy the old one's office, right? Or set up a new one if the old guy is still your manager?
There's been plenty of changes in stocks since then, and I did reassign the office.
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FrisianDude

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Re: Scrolls vs. Codexes and other Library Information
« Reply #125 on: January 20, 2016, 11:58:12 am »


My advice if you are looking to get a library going is to embark with the academic skills you want otherwise it will take decades of in game years to get anything other than dabbling. I personally always embark with a doctor. Now ill just slap some writer points on there as well and call it good.

Theoretically (bear with me I rarely adventure. It's Dwarf Fortress through-and-through) could you make an adventurer with high doctor skills, some writing or teaching/student  and 'settle' the bugger in a pre-made fortress?
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Insert_Gnome_Here

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #126 on: January 20, 2016, 12:36:02 pm »

Also, books written in a player fortress can be transferred to other fortresses in the same world, via caravan!

Forget NecroForts, NecroCivs are where I'm aiming now.
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cochramd

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #127 on: January 20, 2016, 01:20:36 pm »

Do we know what happens when you put scholars into a library without books, bookcases, chairs, tables and blank scrolls and/or quires to write on? My doctors aren't really doing anything, and short of deliberately injuring my dwarfs putting them in a library seems to be the only way to train their skills.
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Niddhoger

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #128 on: January 20, 2016, 01:24:11 pm »

Do we know what happens when you put scholars into a library without books, bookcases, chairs, tables and blank scrolls and/or quires to write on? My doctors aren't really doing anything, and short of deliberately injuring my dwarfs putting them in a library seems to be the only way to train their skills.

I think they can ponder without a table, and get into discussions as well. However, the "skill gains" from leaving your doctors as scholars is still pathetic.  Its better thought of as "rust prevention" than "skill gain." 


My advice if you are looking to get a library going is to embark with the academic skills you want otherwise it will take decades of in game years to get anything other than dabbling. I personally always embark with a doctor. Now ill just slap some writer points on there as well and call it good.

Theoretically (bear with me I rarely adventure. It's Dwarf Fortress through-and-through) could you make an adventurer with high doctor skills, some writing or teaching/student  and 'settle' the bugger in a pre-made fortress?

Yes.  People have already talked about making a "scholar" to visit their fort and "argue" values of their dwarves until they get them all as "values hard work, hates leisure time!" People have also been retiring adventurers in their forts to gain super-soldier champions as well.  No reason you couldn't do this with adventure mode.  Make a ton of demi-god adventurers with scholar stats and skills.  You could even run around trying to level these up with discussions and such before dropping him off and retiring at a fort.  IIRC, you have to start your adventurer off from the fort in the first place to gain full-citizenship.  You could possibly achieve it through becoming a hearthperson, but the issue is that you need to become a native member of that fortress's group.  You know, the bug where petitioned citizens can't become scholars?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 01:27:41 pm by Niddhoger »
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cochramd

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #129 on: January 20, 2016, 01:31:09 pm »

Do we know what happens when you put scholars into a library without books, bookcases, chairs, tables and blank scrolls and/or quires to write on? My doctors aren't really doing anything, and short of deliberately injuring my dwarfs putting them in a library seems to be the only way to train their skills.

I think they can ponder without a table, and get into discussions as well. However, the "skill gains" from leaving your doctors as scholars is still pathetic.  Its better thought of as "rust prevention" than "skill gain."

Sounds better than nothing. What's a good sized library for 23 scholars if they're not reading or writing?
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khearn

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #130 on: January 23, 2016, 11:58:36 pm »

Do we have any idea what attributes/ personality/preferences/skills make for good scribes? I'm always kind of puzzled when it comes to deciding who I should assign.

At first glance, the "writer" skill seems obvious. But that is also referred to as "prose" and seems to effect how good the writing of a book is as in "Overall, the prose is passable." So that doesn't seem applicable to simply copying scrolls/codexes.
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martinuzz

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #131 on: January 24, 2016, 06:51:38 pm »

Hmm haven't seen this book topic before. Dwarven caravan just brought this:



probably the most spiritual book I've seen so far.
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Halnoth

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #132 on: January 24, 2016, 08:24:40 pm »

Do we have any idea what attributes/ personality/preferences/skills make for good scribes? I'm always kind of puzzled when it comes to deciding who I should assign.

At first glance, the "writer" skill seems obvious. But that is also referred to as "prose" and seems to effect how good the writing of a book is as in "Overall, the prose is passable." So that doesn't seem applicable to simply copying scrolls/codexes.

As mentioned in the first post. Scribes do not use the writer or wordsmith skill to copy books.

Scribes gain reader and student fairly quickly, so the skill used for copying books is likely one of those. When a scribe copies a book they copy the whole thing. The writing and prose quality get copied as well. Any scribe works equally well.
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Halnoth

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #133 on: January 24, 2016, 08:26:01 pm »

Hmm haven't seen this book topic before. Dwarven caravan just brought this:



probably the most spiritual book I've seen so far.

Oh that's neat, I haven't had a book like that yet.
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Strangething

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Re: Research: Scrolls vs. Codices and other Library Information
« Reply #134 on: March 09, 2016, 07:32:03 pm »

Bump!

Is !!science!! still being done on dwarven scientists? I'm about to start a new fortress, and I'm intending to build a giant library.
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