Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [3]

Author Topic: Adopts_Children as a tag  (Read 22083 times)

chesse20

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #30 on: May 21, 2016, 01:19:27 am »

█░░█░█░▀▀█▀▀░█▀█ ░ █▀█
█░░█░█░░░█░░░█▀▄ ░█▀▀█
▀▀▀▀░▀▀▀░▀░░░▀░ ▀░▀░░▀
░█▀▀ ░█▀█ ░█ ░█▀▀
░█▀▀ ░█▀▀ ░█ ░█
░▀▀▀ ░▀ ░░░▀ ░▀▀▀
░░░░░░░░░░░████
░░░░░░░░░░░█░░█
░░░░░░░░░░█░░░█
░░░░░░░░░█░░░░█
██████▄▄█░░░░░███▄
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░ Toady ░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ Add This ░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ Please! ░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ And Give ░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ Me One! ░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░░░░░░░█
Logged

Insanegame27

  • Bay Watcher
  • Now versio- I mean, age 18. Honestly not an AI.
    • View Profile
    • Steam ID
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2016, 03:09:22 am »

Everybody's treating this like it's a creature tag, but I think it would make more sense as a behavior that just happens, depending upon the values.

The higher the individual's Family value, the higher the chance that they'll adopt an orphaned relative.
The higher the individual's Friendship value, the higher the chance that they'll adopt the orphaned child of a friend.
The higher the individual's Loyalty (or Cooperation?) value, the higher the chance that they'll adopt an orphaned entity member.
The higher the individual's Sacrifice value, the higher the chance that they'll adopt any orphan.

Animal adoption like the "raised by dragons" situation would be best off waiting for randomized animal personalities, IMO.

The thing is, though, that the way you outline gives modders very little to work with. Say you want to make a race which are obscenely loyal and make friends with each other extremely fast but who does not like taking on responsibility at all.


I think it would be good under the ethics as [Adopt_x] (where x is family/friend/site/outsider/animal/sapient/notsapient/whatever]
That way you could have a race where [adopt_family:Unthinkable] and [adopt_animal:Acceptable] (I have not looked at ethics for a while so my formatting is off a bit)

Also:
█░░█░█░▀▀█▀▀░█▀█ ░ █▀█
█░░█░█░░░█░░░█▀▄ ░█▀▀█
▀▀▀▀░▀▀▀░▀░░░▀░ ▀░▀░░▀
░█▀▀ ░█▀█ ░█ ░█▀▀
░█▀▀ ░█▀▀ ░█ ░█
░▀▀▀ ░▀ ░░░▀ ░▀▀▀
░░░░░░░░░░░████
░░░░░░░░░░░█░░█
░░░░░░░░░░█░░░█
░░░░░░░░░█░░░░█
██████▄▄█░░░░░███▄
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░ Toady ░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ Add This ░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ Please! ░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ And Give ░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ Me One! ░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░░░░░░░█
That my friend is awesome!
Logged
Power/metagaming RL since Birth/Born to do it.
Quote from: Second Amendment
A militia cannot function properly without arms, therefore the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
The military cannot function without tanks and warplanes, therefore the right of the people to keep and bear tanks and warplanes, shall not be infringed.
The military cannot function without ICBMs, therefore the right of the people to keep and bear ICBMs, shall not be infringed.

Dozeb˘m Lolumzalýs

  • Bay Watcher
  • what even is truth
    • View Profile
    • test
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2016, 07:48:33 pm »

Use code tags for even spacing!
Logged
Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: SalvanÚ Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Dirst

  • Bay Watcher
  • [EASILY_DISTRA
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2016, 09:22:04 pm »

Use code tags for even spacing!
[tt]Typewriter Text works, too.[/tt]
Logged
Just got back, updating:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Smak64

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #34 on: June 01, 2016, 08:17:42 am »

What about a possibility to teach language to adopted creatures that have the [UTTERANCES] tag?

Yes, I'm talking about capturing invading kobolds and then adopting and raising them. I'm not sure how it would fully work, aside from maybe changing them into a caste that is otherwise identical aside from being able to speak, but it's an idea.
Logged

Dirst

  • Bay Watcher
  • [EASILY_DISTRA
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #35 on: June 01, 2016, 09:08:12 am »

What about a possibility to teach language to adopted creatures that have the [UTTERANCES] tag?

Yes, I'm talking about capturing invading kobolds and then adopting and raising them. I'm not sure how it would fully work, aside from maybe changing them into a caste that is otherwise identical aside from being able to speak, but it's an idea.
The tags for speech and utterances can already be manipulated with syndromes, which means they can vary across individuals.  That means there's definitely no need for a whole new caste.
Logged
Just got back, updating:
(0.42 & 0.43) The Earth Strikes Back! v2.15 - Pay attention...  It's a mine!  It's-a not yours!
(0.42 & 0.43) Appearance Tweaks v1.03 - Tease those hippies about their pointy ears.
(0.42 & 0.43) Accessibility Utility v1.04 - Console tools to navigate the map

Button

  • Bay Watcher
  • Plants Specialist
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2016, 10:19:32 am »

What about a possibility to teach language to adopted creatures that have the [UTTERANCES] tag?

Yes, I'm talking about capturing invading kobolds and then adopting and raising them. I'm not sure how it would fully work, aside from maybe changing them into a caste that is otherwise identical aside from being able to speak, but it's an idea.
The tags for speech and utterances can already be manipulated with syndromes, which means they can vary across individuals.  That means there's definitely no need for a whole new caste.

!!!

Sounds like it's time for some Kobold Science.
Logged
Sort of back maybe?

BAMM! lets you switch up your graphics without destroying your mods. Currently in v0.1: The Graphicsenating.

Worship!

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2016, 04:25:17 pm »

What about a possibility to teach language to adopted creatures that have the [UTTERANCES] tag?

Yes, I'm talking about capturing invading kobolds and then adopting and raising them. I'm not sure how it would fully work, aside from maybe changing them into a caste that is otherwise identical aside from being able to speak, but it's an idea.
The tags for speech and utterances can already be manipulated with syndromes, which means they can vary across individuals.  That means there's definitely no need for a whole new caste.

!!!

Sounds like it's time for some Kobold Science.

Treat it like a secret, with a in-built (unless they have a poor grasp of speech and emotion themselves) parents desire to teach their children (or convince someone else to) this and bam hey presto a functional member of society that can interact positively with other dwarves, make friendships and maybe even fall in love.

> Dwarven Naturist (/critical thinker/other?) Urist Aarticulate apprentices the adopted kobold Urist Kneelneesi

> Dwarven Naturist Urist Aarticulate divulges the secret of 'dwarven language!' to the adopted kobold apprentice Urist Kneelneesi
Logged

Smak64

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2016, 06:19:37 pm »

The tags for speech and utterances can already be manipulated with syndromes, which means they can vary across individuals.  That means there's definitely no need for a whole new caste.

Well alright, that's something I hadn't known. I just took a shot in the dark with the caste option not knowing how strong syndromes can be. If they can be manipulated with syndromes, then that's definitely a better way to go on it.

As an aside, does that mean it's outright possible to make a poison that destroys the victim's ability to speak while it's active?

Treat it like a secret, with a in-built (unless they have a poor grasp of speech and emotion themselves) parents desire to teach their children (or convince someone else to) this and bam hey presto a functional member of society that can interact positively with other dwarves, make friendships and maybe even fall in love.

> Dwarven Naturist (/critical thinker/other?) Urist Aarticulate apprentices the adopted kobold Urist Kneelneesi

> Dwarven Naturist Urist Aarticulate divulges the secret of 'dwarven language!' to the adopted kobold apprentice Urist Kneelneesi

As an aside entirely, what about a flat option to teach language to utterances creatures through the animal menu? If they're captured, then the ability to train them in some way becomes possible. Seeing as animal trainers would be used to dealing with creatures of an innate hostility towards them, then their experience could be useful to calming them and uh, ahem, "opening their minds" to the possibility of learning dwarven language and values that would integrate them into society.

Or perhaps just flat out conversion. Capture some elves, keep them in a uh... "culture school" which discusses the finer points of the practical usage of nature as well as apprenticeships in the logging industry. Or maybe just flat out slave labor their ability to create wooden objects through means non-harmful to the tree and then sell them to their kin without them knowing its source.
Logged

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2016, 02:22:38 am »

As an aside entirely, what about a flat option to teach language to utterances creatures through the animal menu? If they're captured, then the ability to train them in some way becomes possible. Seeing as animal trainers would be used to dealing with creatures of an innate hostility towards them, then their experience could be useful to calming them and uh, ahem, "opening their minds" to the possibility of learning dwarven language and values that would integrate them into society.

Its been suggested before, its a popular subject (i myself a long time ago made a very lengthy thread about it, pre-tavern or shortly after post tavern update, i can't remember) but as its current state in the game by just putting pet tags onto creatures breaks them pretty bad, so it'd require its own raw field or some other hardcoded system first.

EDIT - Also taking in too many citizens isn't always viable with the caps put in place by the game (which can be lifted) at risk of poorer performance because of pathing lag. The game isn't quite up to toady's vision of having 10,000 simultaneous occupants in a player dwarf fortress. (1000 already counts as a metropolis though the game caps from memory at base about 200-250 with pregnancies stopping at about 150)


Or perhaps just flat out conversion.

Wolololol

> Back on topic, given the myth and magical arcs inflicting potentially syndromic curses to 'create' the goblin race as a option of generation as well as some pretty grotesque magics for those spheres (as broadly explained by toady in the latest FotF), is it in all likelyhood that goblins might end up being variable majority utterance creatures in these circumstances and therefore reduce your stolen dwarven children into utterancing likewise via the same language conversion tactics or affecting them with their blight?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 06:00:14 am by FantasticDorf »
Logged

Bumber

  • Bay Watcher
  • REMOVE KOBOLD
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2016, 07:24:54 pm »

...The game isn't quite up to toady's vision of having 10,000 simultaneous occupants in a player dwarf fortress. (1000 already counts as a metropolis though the game caps from memory at base about 200-250 with pregnancies stopping at about 150)
140 already counts as a metropolis.
Logged
Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

FantasticDorf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2016, 07:16:17 am »

...The game isn't quite up to toady's vision of having 10,000 simultaneous occupants in a player dwarf fortress. (1000 already counts as a metropolis though the game caps from memory at base about 200-250 with pregnancies stopping at about 150)
140 already counts as a metropolis.

From a embark worldview non-fortresses and towns the 1000 metropolis milestone applies to towns relevant to upgrading between hamlets (Ă) < Towns (+) < cities (*) < metropolises (☼)

Thank you for correcting my error between distinguishing individual fortress metropolises and world metropolises. It may or may not be the case that in the future when 1000 or 10,000 dwarves simultaneously around can co-exist feasably these individual triggers might be moved about slightly.

I meant for a 1000 occupants (via multiple large fortress embarks minimum 140 to 140+) collaboratively on the same world tile embark chunk to create the illusion of a 1000 strong dwarven metropolis force. I cannot recall if dwarves also recieve the same kind of labelling system to towns in regards to size or just reads out the largest relevant settlement in that area.

Back on topic. Given how huge a population boost goblins already get from child-snatching and slavery (set your goblin military patrols to *law enforcement* in sites via fixing local militia protocol and goblins will round up and capture POW's entering their towns to convert) would we really want goblins adopting more citizens naturally in the case that it DOES happen?
Logged

Button

  • Bay Watcher
  • Plants Specialist
    • View Profile
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2016, 09:37:52 am »

Given how huge a population boost goblins already get from child-snatching and slavery (set your goblin military patrols to *law enforcement* in sites via fixing local militia protocol and goblins will round up and capture POW's entering their towns to convert) would we really want goblins adopting more citizens naturally in the case that it DOES happen?

Yes.  :D
Logged
Sort of back maybe?

BAMM! lets you switch up your graphics without destroying your mods. Currently in v0.1: The Graphicsenating.

Worship!

MoonyTheHuman

  • Bay Watcher
  • I think the DEC VAX hates me.
    • View Profile
    • hellomouse
Re: Adopts_Children as a tag
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2016, 11:00:32 am »

█░░█░█░▀▀█▀▀░█▀█ ░ █▀█
█░░█░█░░░█░░░█▀▄ ░█▀▀█
▀▀▀▀░▀▀▀░▀░░░▀░ ▀░▀░░▀
░█▀▀ ░█▀█ ░█ ░█▀▀
░█▀▀ ░█▀▀ ░█ ░█
░▀▀▀ ░▀ ░░░▀ ░▀▀▀
░░░░░░░░░░░████
░░░░░░░░░░░█░░█
░░░░░░░░░░█░░░█
░░░░░░░░░█░░░░█
██████▄▄█░░░░░███▄
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░ Toady ░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ Add This ░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ Please! ░░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ And Give ░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░ Me One! ░░█
▓▓▓▓▓█░░░░░░░░░░█
Pages: 1 2 [3]