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Author Topic: Calculation value of armor quality and armor user level? And its status on wiki.  (Read 1825 times)

Fleeting Frames

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(inspired to post from Lets fix the wiki)

Recently my attention was drawn to the impact of armor quality in game:

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Armor#Quality_and_strange_moods
 - Says it follows the same progression as weapons, copied wholesale from 34.11
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Material_science
 - Says armor quality impact is up to 20% bonus to the roll for masterwork

Neither of these mention armor user skill, which one needs to follow the link under attachment to actually have an idea that it plays a role - both in ability to avoid the blow entirely, but also in ability to reduce the damage it does.

And furthermore, of the 43.04 changes, only wear is mentioned on the armor page - force twisting/transference isn't mentioned on either page. (And it really should be, given that empirically it changes guaranteed not-even-a-bruise gear to one you can take red wounds in.)

Obviously, I'd fix the wiki myself - if I was sure what was the correct answer. Iirc the initial research was done by disassembly, and not sure what tools would be suitable for finding this in that, either.

Thus, research on actually correct answers would be appricated if anybody knows of any?

Bumber

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Neither of these mention armor user skill, which one needs to follow the link under attachment to actually have an idea that it plays a role - both in ability to avoid the blow entirely, but also in ability to reduce the damage it does.
I don't think it does.
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Combat_skill#Equipment_skills
The page says armor user increases when attacking or attacked, but it doesn't say the skill does anything beyond encumbrance penalties.
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Toady says it does.

Granted, Toady may be wrong, but not sure how to use disassembly to check.

anewaname

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Have you reviewed these wiki pages (old and older)? Deflection bonus info is there.

The newer "general combat skills" page hid the older individual pages and there may be other useful pages from those versions. It is probably all accurate, as humanity's understanding of momentum hasn't changed recently.

Disassembly can be a lot of effort. You get a program built for it, get DF to a point where there is combat in progress and the game is paused, trigger a tick of time and step through the assembly language as the code hops from instruction to instruction until the tick is completed. During that tick of time, you find and mark the address locations where the program enters and exits the sections of code that you have no interest in reviewing (such as redoing pathing for units, adjusting unit data due to pain/emotion/exertion from combat, use of observation skill, etc), and find where the code is that handles hits (probably by seeking out a known value, like the mass of the weapon your adventurer is attacking with, so when that value is returned in the register, you know it is probably calculating momentum for the attack, and then do more attacks to sketch out the formulas, until you know what is happening).
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That .23a page is interesting, but armor no longer uses damblock. Even as far back as  2008, it seems to combine armor quality and armor user skills in a roll. This from 2009 notes that the 40d. combat notes won't be accurate in next version.

I can only conclude that .23a armor deflection is not accurate for .44.12

(It also gives few more features that might be worth checking if they're noted anywhere.)