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[Ravendarksky]

Hi all,

I'm fairly new at looking properly into dwarffortress and maintaing saves across multiple releases. With toady releasing things faster and faster these days it's gotten to the point when I really want ot carry my saves between versions if possible.

HOWEVER when the raws are changed by toady it seems to break my saves. I get messages like FATAL ERROR: Missing Creature Definition: TIGERMAN

My question is:
Is there any way we can tell what changes toady makes are to the core game and which ones require the new raws? This would allow me to make the decision if it's worth giving up my saves or not.

Also is it possible to save old saves to use the new raws? I'm guessing the answer is NO.

[Niddhoger]

Actually yes.  Toady specifically mentioned that saves from the DF2014 (.40) were compatible with this current release (.42.XX).  However, as you noticed, it wasn't entirely accurate.  I've also seen people have missing raws when it comes to new interactions (like making paper). Mostly, its changes that occur during world-generation that don't get reflected during the migration.  Like performing troupe and master-apprentice relationships wouldn't happen during .40 worldgen, and would still be missing when moved to .42.  Since worldgen continues during play, you'd -eventually- see performing troupes show up in your new taverns (I think).

Personally though, I don't get overly attached to forts and worlds.  When a new stable version comes out, I'll hop to it to avoid the headaches of conversion.  I also don't settle in for the long-haul (giant mega projects and intricate forts, plans to settle multliple forts in succession), and instead just play to test out new features (for now).  I'm messing around with libraries and visitors to figure out the best way to set them up, so that when toady finishes this cycle I know what to expect.  I enjoy hunting for new sites and setting up new fortresses over spending 10+ years with the same fort anyway.

[PatrikLundell]

Well, saves are intended to be backwards compatible, but new features may not show up (step ladders weren't available in old saves upgraded when they were introduced, for instance). Your tiger man crash seems like an unintended crash: it ought to have worked such that tiger men didn't exist in your old save world, so you might want to put up a report on the bug tracker.
I would either keep the old game using the old major release, or make a new fortress using the new one. I normally upgrade fortresses to the latest minor release, though.
The reason I'd recommend against upgrading a 0.40.X save to 0.42.X is that the new needs system requires things you may not have in your world. You won't get instruments, as they're generated during world generation, and thus not music requiring instruments. You won't have any poetry or dance, although they may slowly appear, with luck, as Niddhoger said.
You'll probably not be able to build bookcases for a library, and I'd expect paper and the other steps in the book industry to be unavailable.

[Valkyrie]

First off, what versions are you trying to move between?

Copying my save from 0.40.03 to 0.42.04, it loaded without apparent problem.  As mentioned above, many of the new systems weren't available - no bookmaking/papermaking stuff (neither the recipes nor the labors), nor instruments (since my civ didn't have it at worldgen).  But it was still using most of the new mechanics - I could define locations, hire people into occupations, dwarves would tell stories in the inn (the riveting tale of how at the founding of the fort, my expedition leader became an expedition leader! :p No one has any dance or poetry - I wonder if they'll develop that, or if they'll stick to other stories) , they used the new thoughts & preferences system, etc.

Looking in the error log though, it did run into problems.  A couple entity_default.txt errors that it seemed to be able to work with, converting around some stockpiles and site pops, and then it has a bunch of "*** Error(s) finalizing the creature <yadda>" (one or more "undefined local creature material set to <yadda>" each).  It seems to have been able to resolve all the issues, at least with automated workarounds (e.g. fluffy wamblers now have tallow, leather, fat, and hair - not vanilla, but not horrendous).  I'm guessing there's something more specific about your fort (or lucky about my fort) that's causing the difference.  Did you do any extensive raw customization in the old fort?  Maybe post more of the errors its giving you?

[Ravendarksky]

I'm upgrading from 42.03 to 42.04. My save works fine if I keep the old raws but I've no idea what bug fixes I'm missing out on by doing so.

I also have a 42.02 save I'd like to keep too if possible but he bug fixes from 42.03 were too tempting.

[burned]

FATAL ERROR: Missing Creature Definition: TIGERMAN

This error is specific to whatever graphic set you are using.

This isn't happening because of your save's raws per se so much as your raw > graphics > graphicsname.txt is not defined correctly. Specifically TIGERMAN / TIGER_MAN, TOAD_GIANT / GIANT_TOAD, everything in the now deleted creature_savage_tropical.txt, etc.

Toady did mention all of the above in the auxiliary file changes for 0.42.04 with the exception of the Tigerman.

He wasn't feeling so well from the lutefisk, so give him a break. It's not like that error message is cryptic. ;]

[Quietust]

I'm upgrading from 42.03 to 42.04. My save works fine if I keep the old raws but I've no idea what bug fixes I'm missing out on by doing so.

That's your problem - in general, you must NEVER EVER modify an existing savegame's raws unless you are following very specific instructions.
Between 0.42.03 and 0.42.04, Toady added new creatures, removed some old ones, and reordered the existing ones, and most of those actions are nearly guaranteed to break a saved game.

[Thief^]

Generally speaking, you can merge raws with a merge tool as long as you don't bring in any new creatures, rearrange any creatures or rename a creature tag (I think). You need to know how to use a merge tool though.

42.04 included a lot of new animal men and giant animals, so when I updated my 42.03 save with new raws I left out the new animal men and giant animals and it worked fine. I also skipped the rename of the giant toad to giant cave toad ([CREATURE:TOAD_GIANT_CAVE]). I'm not as certain I needed to do that (but it can't have hurt).