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Author Topic: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread  (Read 974967 times)

MorleyDev

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11220 on: June 10, 2021, 09:05:09 am »

Except the argument isn't "peace is always best" but "What's a good balance of rights vs benefits  that can deliver on what I would view as the four goals: no wars, continued scientific development, increasing and guaranteeing human rights, and better living conditions". It's an optimization min/max problem at heart, and those things will require global infrastructure to keep them growing.

We all exchange liberty for peace all the time: It's generally agreed upon that citizens owning enriched uranium is a bad idea. It's about finding that optimal balance point of local governance vs global governance that delivers on those goals.

I wasn't saying that Roman rule was good, just giving an idea of how violent Europe has historically been that it gets measured in millenia (I had written a whole paragraph where I explained that the Pax Romana comparison isn't even true because of rebellions and rule at spear and all but decided it got lost too much in the weeds so removed it).
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 09:17:40 am by MorleyDev »
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11221 on: June 10, 2021, 11:28:47 am »


And lastly, fuck the Romans. They were a bunch of genocidal imperialist oppressors and should not be idealised or aimed to imitate. The Roman Empire was peaceful because they had emptied vast amounts of land of people by enslaving and killing their inhabitants and because every single person living in it was under threat of being killed. Peace at the point of a speartip is not peace. "Pax Romana" is the perfect example of why "peace always the best" is a superficial view, actually. It is the view of the capitalist, the oppressor, and the one who gets to lord over others.
Quis crucifige quod sordida nordmannie!
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scriver

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11222 on: June 10, 2021, 01:15:00 pm »

Except the argument isn't "peace is always best" but "What's a good balance of rights vs benefits  that can deliver on what I would view as the four goals: no wars, continued scientific development, increasing and guaranteeing human rights, and better living conditions". It's an optimization min/max problem at heart, and those things will require global infrastructure to keep them growing.

We all exchange liberty for peace all the time: It's generally agreed upon that citizens owning enriched uranium is a bad idea. It's about finding that optimal balance point of local governance vs global governance that delivers on those goalsq

Still sounds like straight imperialism to me. "We need to take away your ability to govern yourself so we can protect your rights".

This isn't a "minmax problem". This is you assuming you know what is best for every people in the world, and that every people in the world want what you want. This is you wanting to take away people's ability to govern themselves in their own way because you think your way is better.

Taking away peoples' ability to rule themselves do not protect rights, it endangers them. Taking the rule of Sweden from our hands and putting it in the hands of France and Germany do not protect our rights, it protects German and French interests. It puts our rights at the mercy of people who do not care about us and only cares for how best they can gain from us. See for example of the EU currently trying to force Sweden to allow toxic mining in our drinking water catchments. Who protects our right to clean, drinkable water when the decision over it is in the hands of people who are not beholden to the people the decision will affect?
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11223 on: June 10, 2021, 02:19:48 pm »

leones meus diliget tuum in ano est in amphitheatro Flaviano!
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scriver

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11224 on: June 10, 2021, 04:20:58 pm »

People called chairman go on the house!
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11225 on: June 11, 2021, 07:18:05 am »

I propose we all subject Europe to rule by the Khanate living incarnation of Yama. By living under the rule of the divine Khan of Khans we optimise scientific development with captured scientists, we guarantee human rights as all are equal under heaven, and the divine Khan of Khans knows how to govern you better than you do because sacred wisdom flows through their chakras

MorleyDev

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11226 on: June 12, 2021, 05:24:03 pm »

Pretty sure "a global federated democracy" is like...the opposite of divine rule by a khanate?

As technology develops and supply chains become more complicated, ever increasingly big regions by neccessity need to work with other regions and specialize their outputs to fulfil those supply chains. That's been the historic trend, I don't see why it wouldn't/isn't currently continuing to scale to countries as bigger regions.

And then you hit a point of scale where it becomes prudent to have a position whose main concern isn't the needs of individual regions only (and so puts those needs over other regions) but the overall system.

Maintaining each region adequately is still part of that decision making process, but it allows for oversight whose mental arithmetic doesn't seek to only maximize one area and for the decisions to be made that can only have an impact when made at a system-wide level.

A federated system allows each region a degree of autonomy, whilst still allowing a democratic process to hold accountable those who need to make the decisions for the overall system.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2021, 05:30:35 pm by MorleyDev »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11227 on: June 13, 2021, 04:32:27 pm »

Pretty sure "a global federated democracy" is like...the opposite of divine rule by a khanate?
Which is why it needs some workshopping before we implement it worldwide

scriver

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11228 on: June 21, 2021, 04:52:37 am »

The Swedish government just collapsed with the riksdag voting no confidence for the state minister.
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martinuzz

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11229 on: June 21, 2021, 09:48:26 am »

A great victory for the social economic left! I can only approve.

(The government fell because left wing opposition strongly opposed the government's plan to make it easier for landlords to increase rent prices)
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11230 on: June 21, 2021, 01:09:25 pm »

It's only a great victory if the undesired policy does not come to pass
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voliol

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11231 on: June 21, 2021, 04:31:33 pm »

It's a victory insofar as the left party being able to show they are not toothless. Perhaps less so if it means a right-conservative government forming but even then there's the opportunity to pull the social democrats leftward.

I can't imagine the policy being pushed now by anyone but the centre party (i.e. neoliberals claiming to be centrists), as the even among right-wing voters it is unpopular[1]. The reason it was pushed to begin with was that after 4 months of no government in 2018 the social democrats were able to form a government with the green party, supported by the centre party and liberals (and left party), with the free pricing of rents in new buildings (but eventually also renovated ones i.e. all rents) being one of the many (73) concessions.
Another concession was that the left party were allowed no concessions, which they begrudgingly accepted as long as the rent policy did not advance.

[1]https://www.expressen.se/nyheter/valjarnas-dom-over-regeringens-politik-ratt-sprakkrav-och-mobilforbud-fel-marknadshyror/

scriver

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11232 on: June 21, 2021, 05:27:32 pm »

Yeah, the Environment Party (green party) aren't particularly left wing. They're slightly leftist and extremely bourgeois liberals, not socialists by any means. I can only assume they were put together with the Left Party to either make it look like support for the change is bigger in the Left Party or (more likely) to make it look like support for the change is less in the Environment Party than it actually is.
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voliol

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11233 on: June 21, 2021, 06:21:00 pm »

The article has multiple questions, with the same parties groupings in all of them. Someone on reddit pointed out that the journalists were probably just lazy and combined "similar" parties, as the sample size for small parties would've been too small for their own bar (1015 people in total, ~40 green party voters if proportional to the 2018 election results).

Kagus

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Re: The friendly and polite Europe related terrible jokes thread
« Reply #11234 on: June 22, 2021, 02:38:47 am »

Why are clovers the symbol of center parties? We've got the same deal in Norway.

Is your Left party also a spineless non-entity that gives mouth service to leftist ideals while actually furthering the conservative agenda? Man, we really are neighbors...
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