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Author Topic: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Dwarven Economy) 42.05 LNP -Combined game phase-  (Read 32593 times)

Timeless Bob

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Now managed by Gwolfski (with thanks)




This is a mad experiment for a version of "real time" multiplayer in Dwarf Fortress:  A multiple-tile embark is segregated into 1x1 embarks using a grid of roads.  Each 1x1 block of land will be called a "District" and left in pristine shape until claimed by a Player.  Players also must claim seven dwarves from among the local population pool as their "Founding seven" (each "Founding seven" will be put in a burrow so that they are held inside the boundaries of that Quarter.  Any children of those seven will be added to the burrow, allowing separated genealogies to develop as well.)   Once a District is claimed, then a copy of the save is downloaded and the Player plays out a year, excavating or building anything they like out of the resources that the District provides.  (Inter-quarter trading or resources will have to be role-played out, creating an ad-hoc market system between Players.)  Here's the beauty of the system: Once a year has been played, they upload the new save file using the chosen name of that district as the file name, then that becomes the blueprint for the version of the game running on my machine.  In this way, multiple Districts can be played out year after year, with the completed year save of the game on my machine updating every-one else when in-game Spring rolls around once again.

Migrants will become the inter-district workforce for hauling and building stuff with all other labors turned off (Unless they are chosen as a part of a new District's "Founding seven.")  Districts who also have the Mayor or another Noble as a Founding member of the District, have the power and authority to decide to leverage a tax on the other Districts.  Of course, every year after the first one, there will be an election for the position of Mayor in the forum polls, so everyone has the chance to have that position.

  Special Days   
Founder's Day:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Caravan Day:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

  Latest Save   
27th Slate, Year 202 -"Phase 0" (Beginning of "Blueprint" stage, ends on Feb 3rd by noon, forum-time - extended to Feb 4th by midnight, forum time)
27th Slate, Year 202 -New Districts Founded-
City Population: 34
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

  History 
Year 202
"The City of Light" founded by "The Great Road" of "The Merchants of Wood" (The last Dwarven civilization in the world)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 11:25:15 pm by Timeless Bob »
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Timeless Bob

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Interested in playing a district:
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2016, 06:33:40 am »

Players may begin claiming Districts and posting their choices for starting dwarves on Saturday the 23rd at noon, forum time. 
Please post a "top ten" list of the dwarves you want by their names.  Dwarves that make it higher in Player's lists will be claimed by them, with ties going to whomever posts their list first.  Males, females, adults and children, all are allowed to be one of the seven that are District Founders.  Players will have until the 27th of January to post their list of possible Founders.  Those Districts that are able to fill the seven Founder's spots will then be able to play the year, while those still waiting for spots to be filled will be able to try again on the next Founder's Day (1st Day of spring).

Unless they're chosen to found another District, spouses and children will follow a chosen Founder as bonus members of a District, but given the choice between Founder parents, unclaimed children will follow their mothers.

Current Nobles
Expedition Leader: Miss Light Earthenfrost
Militia Commander: Mr Doren Netwebbed
Sherriff: Mr Zasit Knowingwind
Hammerer: Miss Eral Paddledhigh
Manager: Miss Light Dreamstorches
Chief Medical Dwarf: Mr Feb Wadepaint
Broker: Mrs Zasit Walledbowel
Book-keeper: Mrs Ast Dikecradle

Timeless Bob - Founder's District (P)
   District Founders:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Sanctume - "The Olive Grove" District  (F)
   District Founders:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Urdothor - Unnamed District R
   District Founders:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Gwolfski - Lakecastle District (G)
   District Founders:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Shofet - Lemducim District (L)
   District Founders:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 02:29:11 pm by Timeless Bob »
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Timeless Bob

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Trade Deals
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2016, 06:33:58 am »

Legend:
Looking for...
Offer
Counter-offer
In Negotiation
Accepted

Year 202-203:

The Founder's District:
Use of 1 woodcutter to cut down the first tree in any Districts
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Lemducim District (L): The Willow on the west side between the pond and the road
Unnamed District R: I accept the offer given and would like the north-western most olive tree cut down
Unnamed District H: I accept the offer given and would like the Carambola Tree at the southern edge of my district, in the dead center with a piece of obsidian
Lakecastle District: I accept the offer given and any tree on my property will do.


1 anvil for sale to any District
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1 pick for sale to any District
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Unnamed District R:
Supplies needed!
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Prices Slashed
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Supplies needed!
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Cats needed!
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Olive Grove District F:
Miners needed!
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wooden Furniture for Sale
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stone products needed: 2 mechanisms, stone blocks, querns, some raw stones, and excess logs felled in your property
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stone products needed: 100 stone jugs
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Stone products needed: 100 stone pots
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To Lelducim District: I offer a trade pact of stone supplies:
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1. Looking for obsidian stone boulders.
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

2. Looking for wood logs to chop and haul.
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

3. Looking for lake/pond as water source access.
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

4. Looking kenaf plants, rice plants, rope reed, rat weed.  Looking for rights and access to gather plants from your district.
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lemducim District:
Miners available for hire
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Mr. Feb Wadepaint for City Manager!
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Lakecastle District:

Offering to trade sheets and quires
Details:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2016, 09:21:30 pm by Timeless Bob »
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Shofet

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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2016, 07:15:57 am »

Im not too clear about the idea. Would two players be able to play thier districts the same year?
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Bearskie

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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2016, 08:06:15 am »

that becomes the blueprint for the version of the game running on my machine.

This was the part that caught me. Err.. how?

Timeless Bob

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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2016, 04:30:53 pm »

OK, so here's an example:
There are 20 districts in this 4x5 embark.  All but one (P) are empty lots waiting to be claimed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(I'm going to call the claimed District P, "The City Founder's District".)

So, suppose we have three Players who have decided to claim empty lots: Say: District K, District L and District Q.
So I would save this game right after it announced it was Spring and upload the save file as a link on the first page under "Year <number> save". 
All the Players who had claimed a District would then immediately upload that file and post which seven previously unclaimed residents would be the "District Founders".  (Obviously, there might be some cross-over, so it would have to be that the person who posts their claim first gets that resident.)
NOW everyone plays their turn, only affecting the District that they claimed and saving the game once the one RL week is up, posting a link to that save in the forum. 

OK, so that's clear so far, but now, I'd upload all of the save files and on the original game save that I posted, I would make burrows in those three Districts, assigning the chosen seven for each one.  Then, using the other three save files as a "blueprint" for each District, I'd play through the turn on the original game, and post the resulting save file as "Year <number+1> save".  Everyone with a claimed District would then have a chance to play through another year on the new save, so that they can see what the other districts have done the year before. 

Players of adjacent Districts can choose to collaborate on a bridge maybe, or to join tunnels/sewers if they like, or they can just go it alone and see what happens.  Players could also barter and trade resources with each-other - wood for charcoal for metal smithing might be plentiful on an empty lot, who needs stone blocks or to be protected by the military of another District, so those Players could set up (and post) a inter-District trade agreement.  Players who miss the save posting deadline would just miss out on being a part of that year's update and their District (and the District's "founding seven") would become available to be claimed once again.  (Obviously, any trade agreements would fall through as well, which would make the Marketplace a bit of a risk, but would reward Players who were timely in posting their save files with greater trust from the other Districts.  All part of the game.  New Players would upload the latest save file, claim unclaimed Districts and if it's never been claimed before, go through the "claiming a founding seven" process too.

Access to the Trade Depot would be via a Broker that is protected from being chosen as one of the Founders.  Heck, we might make all the Noble positions like that - The Sheriff, Barons, ect... would all be free-range citizens, able to choose where they take their business, where they choose to sleep and where they choose to worship.  Their needs would be shared by every District in The City, and would make for some interesting RP in the Forum. Likewise, "strange moods" and the like.

Wash rinse, repeat.

The idea is that eventually, TWENTY Players will be able to upload a new save and affect the world every in-game year, rather than just one at a time (spaced about a year apart in RL).  Because of this, The City will dynamically grow and change.   There's also the "bloodlines" aspect to this:  If things go on long enough, the seven "Founders" of each District will marry and have kids. If those kids happen to marry into the families of other Districts, then Players could set up inheritances or dowries or whatever to simulate the changes in power for each District.  (All in fun.)

For fun, I'll be going into Legends mode and looking up the direct ancestors (mother, father, grandmother, grandfather, ect...) of each "District Founder" as well as what each family member was most famous for.  This is from a Medium sized world, 200 years old and with one surviving dwarven civilization.  The world map itself is one I set up in PerfectWorld, and is going to be used in an adventurer game I set up after The City has been going on for awhile.  (Quests for abducted children or stolen artifacts, maybe even a contest to see who can guide "The Tourist" as a companion unharmed from wherever he begins to The City.  I expect this world to be the host of many different games as each naturally runs its course, creating a rich and diverse Player-generated history.)

So far, the world is still in "The Age of Xun"
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 09:18:23 pm by Timeless Bob »
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Sanctume

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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2016, 05:13:54 pm »

I'm interested.  I'll edit my thoughts in a bit.

I kinda tried something like this on my own, but this will make it definitely easier to micromanage with other player's input. 

Each embark tile is 48x48, so a 5 width x 4 height embark composes of 20 48x48 local map playable tiles. 

Referencing the image posted by TimelessBob, labelled with "districts":
ABCDE
FGHIJ
KLMNO
PQRST

Each district within its 48x48 tile boundary can have 11x11 "plots" in this formation: 
123
456
789

There is a 1-tile map edges that cannot be dig out. 
There is a 5 edge limit construction buildings from the edge. 

So it is possible to fit the following in a district this way:
1 tile map edge
3 tile map-edge road
2 tile dry moat / ditch
1 tile wall
11 tile Plot 1
1 tile wall
11 tile Plot 2
1 tile wall
11 tile Plot 3
1 tile wall
2 tile dry moat / ditch
3 tile inner road
= 48

However, this is not a perfect setup because depending on which edge you start the count from, the last district will have 1 less tiles. 
In order to keep the Plots sizes inside the District the same, the inner road on some will be 1 tile less.

--

So, trying to understand the rules.  It possible to go at it alone protecting that district.
3 plots of 11 wide + 4 walls => 33 + 4 = 37x37 wall perimeter.
There is enough room for a 2 wide moat. (37 + 2 on one side + 2 on the other side) = 41x41 area.
Add 3 wide roads on all side = 47x47
And finally add 1 wide map edge makes it within the 48x48 district boundary.

--

Now as far as resource what do the players divide / get?

1. Citizens and skills.
2. Natural Resource within boundary.
3. Migrants.

--

Trying to visualize how it goes, paraphrasing.

Year 0.  Timeless Bob kicks off District P with 7 founders, plus however many migrants come that first year.

And this example 3 players claim the adjacent districts: K, L and Q from this sub set formation:

KL
PQ


"Year 1 (main) save" becomes available.

A post detailing which migrants go to which district, and what resources are available in that district?

So we'll have for example we have 7 founders and 14 migrants:
Player K gets 1 founder, and 5 migrants: a b c d e
Player L gets 1 founder, and 5 migrants: f g h i j
and Player Q gets 1 founder, and 4 migrants: k l m n

Each player then plays their own copy of "Year 1 (main) save"

Player K
Player K load his copy of the game, and builds on that district using only the 1 founder, and 5 migrants: a b c d e.
And which ever resources he can get from that district.
Obviously, he needs a pick, at least 2 wood to make a training axe, and an anvil if it's available.

Now remember, Player K is only making a "blueprint" for this District.
1 game year done, Player K submits "Year 1 (Player K) save"

The same thing is done by Player L, and Player Q.

Any new migrants coming in is a bonus.
However, keep in mind that this blue print will be used by Timeless Bob to continue play on the Year 1 (main) save"
and using Year 1 (Player K) save" as blue print to build for that district;
and simultaneously following Player L and Player Q blue prints.

Once Timeless Bob is done, he uploads "Year 2 (main) save" which opens up more adjacent Districts for other players.

--

I am just not clear on how to share resources.

And I'm definite interested how citizen burrow actually works.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 06:00:58 pm by Sanctume »
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Klitri

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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 05:26:07 pm »

Genius! PTW
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Timeless Bob

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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 06:51:57 pm »

I'll answer you using italics:

I kinda tried something like this on my own, but this will make it definitely easier to micromanage with other player's input. 

Each embark tile is 48x48, so a 5 width x 4 height embark composes of 20 48x48 local map playable tiles. 

Referencing the image posted by TimelessBob, labelled with "districts":
ABCDE
FGHIJ
KLMNO
PQRST

Each district within its 48x48 tile boundary can have 11x11 "plots" in this formation: 
123
456
789

I suppose you could subdivide each district like that if you'd like to.  The Boundary Road (the border of the 4x5 embark) is 5-wide, but the ones inside the embark are only 3-wide, which makes each District 42x42 squares.  There is some variation on that: the bottom row of PQRST is 47 squares tall, and the column of AFKP is 47 squares wide (Yes, that means the Founder's District is 47x47, but they got there first and fudged things in their favor.)
There is a 1-tile map edges that cannot be dig out.  Already taken care of with the Boundary Road, this is not an issue for Districts
There is a 5 edge limit construction buildings from the edge.  Boundary Road takes care of this too.

So it is possible to fit the following in a district this way:
1 tile map edge
3 tile map-edge road
2 tile dry moat / ditch
1 tile wall
11 tile Plot 1
1 tile wall
11 tile Plot 2
1 tile wall
11 tile Plot 3
1 tile wall
2 tile dry moat / ditch
3 tile inner road
= 48

However, this is not a perfect setup because depending on which edge you start the count from, the last district will have 1 less tiles. 
In order to keep the Plots sizes inside the District the same, the inner road on some will be 1 tile less.
That's true if you are thinking about setting up roads between all plots as well, but that would be up to the District to choose to do so or not.

--

So, trying to understand the rules.  It possible to go at it alone protecting that district.
3 plots of 11 wide + 4 walls => 33 + 4 = 37x37 wall perimeter.
There is enough room for a 2 wide moat. (37 + 2 on one side + 2 on the other side) = 41x41 area.
Add 3 wide roads on all side = 47x47
And finally add 1 wide map edge makes it within the 48x48 district boundary. 42 x 42-ish district boundary.

--

Now as far as resource what do the players divide / get?

1. Citizens and skills. All the unclaimed Citizens will have their labors other than fetching/carrying and building turned off.  Only the special skills of the Claimed Citizens (the Founders of each District, their wives and children) will be available for each District.  However, these Founders will be put in a 42x42-ish burrow that covers their District so they stay inside those boundaries.  The only way this would change is if Players had already made a trade agreement for the specific skills of one of these dwarves, and the payment would then also be taken care of.
2. Natural Resource within boundary.
3. Migrants. These are the "Free range" citizens, who are available to build and transport stuff in every District as part of the base labor force.  Nobles would also be included in the "Free Range" section, but they may have their skills turned on to benefit any District, since they belong to the City as "public servants".

--

Trying to visualize how it goes, paraphrasing.

Year 0.  Timeless Bob kicks off District P with 7 founders, plus however many migrants come that first year.

And this example 3 players claim the adjacent districts: K, L and Q from this sub set formation:

KL
PQ


"Year 1 (main) save" becomes available.

A post detailing which migrants go to which district, and what resources are available in that district?

So we'll have for example we have 7 founders and 14 migrants:
Player K gets 1 founder, and 5 migrants: a b c d e
Player L gets 1 founder, and 5 migrants: f g h i j
and Player Q gets 1 founder, and 4 migrants: k l m n
No. 
7 founders, and at least 21 migrants (total population: 28)
Player K gets 7 of those 21 as "Founders of District K"
Player L gets 7 of those 21 as "Founders of District L"
Player Q gets 7 of those 21 as "Founders of District Q".

Since all of the population has been taken, there will be no "free range" citizens in the Main game that year.  However, there are more than 30 in the save file I used to make the embark right now, so that shouldn't be an issue.


Each player then plays their own copy of "Year 1 (main) save"

Player K
Player K load his copy of the game, and builds on that district using only the 1 founder, and 5 migrants: a b c d e.
And which ever resources he can get from that district. No, Player K uses the 7 Founders and whichever resources he can get from that District, plus whichever other resources and skills he's bartered for from other Players who are controlling other Districts.
Obviously, he needs a pick, at least 2 wood to make a training axe, and an anvil if it's available. Or if it's not available, he can trade with the district that does own these items for their use.  What he can trade is food production, wood, pasture for animals, ect... Whatever both Players agree is fair. For instance, Player K can trade a batch of 50 logs for the use of one of the woodcutters from District P to clear out certain trees, or can trade a future barrel of booze for a training axe that is already made in District P...

Now remember, Player K is only making a "blueprint" for this District.
1 game year done, Player K submits "Year 1 (Player K) save"

The same thing is done by Player L, and Player Q.

Any new migrants coming in is a bonus. They also will have all skills but carry/fetch and build turned off.
However, keep in mind that this blue print will be used by Timeless Bob to continue play on the Year 1 (main) save"
and using Year 1 (Player K) save" as blue print to build for that district;
and simultaneously following Player L and Player Q blue prints.

Once Timeless Bob is done, he uploads "Year 2 (main) save" which opens up more adjacent Districts for other players.
Any of the unclaimed Districts are up for grabs, I just used those three as an example, I could just as easily have used A, D and Q.  The roads are there to make each District able to be gotten to without fighting through underbrush or buildings.  A wall around a District would just keep everyone out who aren't scaling those walls or eventually tunneling in by agreement or via the Caverns.

--

I am just not clear on how to share resources.

And I'm definite interested how citizen burrow actually works.
The burrows would be for the Founding 7 (plus wives and children) of each District only.  They will extend all the way up and all the way down.  Everyone else will either be in their own District (in the case of Founders) or able to go wherever they wish.  I'll be naming each Burrow after the District name chosen by the Player. ("The Founder's District" is the name of the burrow that covers the area inside District P).  Resources in the District will be put in stockpiles that "give only to workshop" and "take only from workshop" to keep those resources from being carried off to another District.  When the Caravan comes along, each Player will be able to specify which goods they want taken to the Depot, and what they wish to trade for them.  I'll be handling each District's contributions a sale at a time in a first-posted, first traded manner.  Whatever they get will go back to the proper District before doing another sale.  In this way, not only Inter-district trade, but also trade with the rest of dwarvendom will be possible.

Think of each District as basically the same as a 1x1 embark with 7 dwarves starting out. The only difference is that immigrants can also become emigrants as they go where the work is and all the really interesting stuff gets to be done by the Founders and their families.

One other thing: While marriages and children can increase the number of people who are in a District's burrow, deaths can decrease that number too. Any District that has had all of their Founders family die out will become available once again.  Just the same as in Fort mode when the last citizen dies for whatever reason.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 07:48:16 pm by Timeless Bob »
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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2016, 07:28:13 pm »

incidentally, since there will always be a finite number of "free range" citizens to do the grunt work, having them available to do that work might ITSELF be a resource that can be bartered and traded.  For instance, if I wanted to build this big temple to some god this year, I might pay the other Players resources I have stockpiled to not build things this turn, so that the workers will spend more time on my project.  Districts with Founding Family members who are unhappy might jump at the chance for them to "take a vacation" one year and get in some much needed socializing and general R&R.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 07:33:10 pm by Timeless Bob »
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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2016, 09:02:09 pm »

I'm interested in this. It sounds really fun.  :)

So, we could have districts specialize and create trade agreements then? Like, Maybe one group produces ample amounts of booze and one has excellent craftsdwarves, and they trade.

The issue here is that since we only have 1 district currently, where do we get pickaxes at the moment? Just trading with the Founders District, or?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 09:07:27 pm by Urdothor »
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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2016, 09:11:14 pm »

I do not have time to actually assist in this grand endeavor.

I would love to be dorfed in the centermost tile!
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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2016, 09:25:20 pm »

I'm interested in this. It sounds really fun.  :)

So, we could have districts specialize and create trade agreements then? Like, Maybe one group produces ample amounts of booze and one has excellent craftsdwarves, and they trade.

The issue here is that since we only have 1 district currently, where do we get pickaxes at the moment? Just trading with the Founders District, or?

Yes, you'll have to trade with the Founder's District for your initial things, but I have it on good authority that they will loan new Districts what they have already for the first year in exchange for the use of the Founding seven dwarves' skills at some later date.  A favor for a favor, you might say...
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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2016, 09:27:43 pm »

I do not have time to actually assist in this grand endeavor.

I would love to be dorfed in the centermost tile!

So if someone sets up a District in the "H" or "M" spaces, you want a dwarf named after you?  I don't have a problem with that, but it will be up to whoever sets up those districts to allow it.
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Re: "The City" (Multiplayer-ish Community Fortress) 42.04
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2016, 09:29:37 pm »

Actually, I was thinking about taking District H. For several reasons. Military may have something to do with it. Maybe.

Also, how do we decide upon releasing HFS upon the world?
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