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[IndigoFenix]

One of the most common complaints about DF is that it's too easy to avoid trouble if you just wall yourself in.  This topic is for coming up with methods to change that.

Bonus points for making changes modular (not changing dwarf physiology or any existing files) and not requiring dfhack.

Initial ideas for playing with: animals with wall piercing interactions, vermin bites, disease, sabotage, curses.

[IndigoFenix]

Duplicate post... Reserved for later I guess.

[Putnam]

some way to make dwarves more inefficient if they can't deal with the outside world

i'm sorta miffed that AFAIK none of the needs in the latest version have anything to do with stuff that's actually outside the fort, even abstract thinking can be satisfied with awful prose from the resident scholar writing about the place in which they reside

[Orange Wizard]

"Urist was anxious/irritated/sad about not being able to hear news from his old home/from family"?

Would also be nice to see needs being satisfied depending on how good the work in question actually is.

[Putnam]

The new emotion syndrome effect allows you to add any allowed emotion with arbitrarily named thoughts, in the form of "is/was emotion due to SYN_NAME". That could work out well.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT?!

But that means that modders can do something to a dwarf AND THEN EXPLAIN TO THE PLAYER WHAT HAPPENED!

YES!

[Warlord255]

The new emotion syndrome effect allows you to add any allowed emotion with arbitrarily named thoughts, in the form of "is/was emotion due to SYN_NAME". That could work out well.

Wait, so it'll list it just like that, whatever the name of your syndrome is? Oh baby, this could have some interesting consequences. It also applies for "positive" syndromes... hooray!

[Urlance Woolsbane]

The new emotion syndrome effect allows you to add any allowed emotion with arbitrarily named thoughts, in the form of "is/was emotion due to SYN_NAME". That could work out well.

That's very useful to know.
Thanks!

Hehehe...

[Putnam]

God, I really need to remember that people don't infer that kind of thing as immediately as I do. I had Fortbent updated to replace all the add-emotion interactions with proper syndrome effects within the week, but never bothered to tell anyone. The errorlog even tells you if you have a non-existent emotion. Ctrl+F CE_FEEL_EMOTION here to see some specific examples.

EDIT: whoops i missed rage, class system there is slightly borked for now so i'm not too worried but should fix that

[AceSV]

You could make the effects of intoxication more powerful, or make dwarves more prone to brawling. 

Is there a tag that lets creatures move through stone, like ghosts do?  You could mod creatures like giant worms or giant moles or tunnel dragons to be able to dig through the rock and appear in your fortress even if it's walled in. 

Vermin syndromes seem promising, but kind of boring if they just make you sick.  Vermin that can start fires or cause dwarves to mutate or raise undead would be more interesting.  It would be interesting if you could mod some kind of a two-stage lifeform that could burrow into the fortress as a vermin, then lay eggs in your foodstockpile or wherever that hatch into larger dwarf-eating predators, then lay vermin eggs.  I think some fungi and slime molds have similar lifecycles. 

You could make the underground crops toxic in high doses, so if your dwarves are only eating plump helmets, they'll get a plump helmet high or something.  Underground crops could slightly cause it, overground crops could slightly cure it and meats could be neutral.  Off course, you could still wall in your overground crops, but it makes certain strategies a lot more difficult. 

[Sanctume]

You could make the effects of intoxication more powerful, or make dwarves more prone to brawling. 

Is there a tag that lets creatures move through stone, like ghosts do?  You could mod creatures like giant worms or giant moles or tunnel dragons to be able to dig through the rock and appear in your fortress even if it's walled in. 

Vermin syndromes seem promising, but kind of boring if they just make you sick.  Vermin that can start fires or cause dwarves to mutate or raise undead would be more interesting.  It would be interesting if you could mod some kind of a two-stage lifeform that could burrow into the fortress as a vermin, then lay eggs in your foodstockpile or wherever that hatch into larger dwarf-eating predators, then lay vermin eggs.  I think some fungi and slime molds have similar lifecycles. 

You could make the underground crops toxic in high doses, so if your dwarves are only eating plump helmets, they'll get a plump helmet high or something.  Underground crops could slightly cause it, overground crops could slightly cure it and meats could be neutral.  Off course, you could still wall in your overground crops, but it makes certain strategies a lot more difficult.

So like Alien (the movie) face hugger (vermin) that incubates inside a dwarf then spawns a xeno out of a dwarf?

[Meph]

My favourite topic. I'll come back to this later today, write down a few suggestions

[Ghills]

Many players don't want to lose the ability to turtle at certain points to deal with in-fort stress, or only want a certain kind of attack - ex, not so interested in invaders but want more wild animals to try and trap.  Modular would be great from that perspective.

Probably our best bet is to model the mods on RL issues that deep miners faced so we get a decent model to replicate in DF. In that spirit, some ideas:

- Cleanliness is Healthiness: Vermin or animals spread syndromes. Add an Herbworker shop that creates syndrome-cures from plants. The cures can be dumped in water or alcohol, added to food, etc.  Could also be incorporated into pre-made soap at the new workshop.  Perhaps add a profession that puts herbal pesticides around the fort to keep vermin down.
- Bad Air: Traditionally mining carries a high risk of bad air and underground gases. Add some 'stone' materials that make dwarves high or sick. Syndrome should decrease after exposure, so getting away from the Bad Air material will fix the problem.
- Curses: Dwarves casting curses on fellow fort members they abominate would be loads of !!fun!!. Would probably require modifying dwarf raws?
- Airshafts: Vermin and unwashed dwarfs cause minor nausea. Victims are cured by getting having access to 'light' tiles, making airshafts desirable. Unwashed dwarves just need to go wash. Makes soap and fort design more important.
- Balanced Diet: Dwarves need to eat some grain, meat and herbs every so often. Turns food into a resource that needs active management. May be highly irritating for players.

I can't stand the military screen, so anything that requires suiting up a squad is just not interesting. I know I'm not the only player with that opinion.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Do you have ANY IDEA WHAT IS POSSIBLE WITH MODDING?!

I love those ideas SO MUCH but ALMOST EVERY ONE OF THEM IS IMPOSSIBLE.

Many players don't want to lose the ability to turtle at certain points to deal with in-fort stress, or only want a certain kind of attack - ex, not so interested in invaders but want more wild animals to try and trap.  Modular would be great from that perspective.

Probably our best bet is to model the mods on RL issues that deep miners faced so we get a decent model to replicate in DF. In that spirit, some ideas:

- Cleanliness is Healthiness: Vermin or animals spread syndromes. Add an Herbworker shop that creates syndrome-cures from plants. The cures can be dumped in water or alcohol, added to food, etc.  Could also be incorporated into pre-made soap at the new workshop.  Perhaps add a profession that puts herbal pesticides around the fort to keep vermin down. Completely impossible. No new professions can be assigned, though trickery with Alchemist is impossible. Impossible to put things into water, alcohol, food, or to trigger something on use of soap, or to put pesticides places.
- Bad Air: Traditionally mining carries a high risk of bad air and underground gases. Add some 'stone' materials that make dwarves high or sick. Syndrome should decrease after exposure, so getting away from the Bad Air material will fix the problem. Possible, and done in Masterwork, sort of. Just more fantasy than RL sim.
- Curses: Dwarves casting curses on fellow fort members they abominate would be loads of !!fun!!. Would probably require modifying dwarf raws? Possible, but not very much flexibility with curses. Also, you cannot make others hostile to the dwarf without removing the dwarf from your civ, or you will face the dreaded tantrum spiral. See the Cult of the Carp God.
- Airshafts: Vermin and unwashed dwarfs cause minor nausea. Victims are cured by getting having access to 'light' tiles, making airshafts desirable. Unwashed dwarves just need to go wash. Makes soap and fort design more important. Might be vaguely possible, but probably incredibly hard, buggy, and not really triggered by the right things or producing the right effects.
- Balanced Diet: Dwarves need to eat some grain, meat and herbs every so often. Turns food into a resource that needs active management. May be highly irritating for players. Very, very, very, very impossible.

[Urlance Woolsbane]

You could make the effects of intoxication more powerful, or make dwarves more prone to brawling. 

Is there a tag that lets creatures move through stone, like ghosts do?  You could mod creatures like giant worms or giant moles or tunnel dragons to be able to dig through the rock and appear in your fortress even if it's walled in. 

Vermin syndromes seem promising, but kind of boring if they just make you sick.  Vermin that can start fires or cause dwarves to mutate or raise undead would be more interesting.  It would be interesting if you could mod some kind of a two-stage lifeform that could burrow into the fortress as a vermin, then lay eggs in your foodstockpile or wherever that hatch into larger dwarf-eating predators, then lay vermin eggs.  I think some fungi and slime molds have similar lifecycles. 

You could make the underground crops toxic in high doses, so if your dwarves are only eating plump helmets, they'll get a plump helmet high or something.  Underground crops could slightly cause it, overground crops could slightly cure it and meats could be neutral.  Off course, you could still wall in your overground crops, but it makes certain strategies a lot more difficult.

Are vermin-carried syndromes possible? Vermin don't act like normal creatures, after all.