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Author Topic: Temple sacrifices  (Read 3208 times)

Cultist

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Temple sacrifices
« on: February 05, 2016, 04:58:51 am »

So, for the time being temples serve simply as a metting place with performers and praying. Just a bit of a brainstorming about possible temple sacrifical activities.
1.No living sacrifices.
Simplest form of sacrifice - some plant or thread or items. There my be sacred days when worshippers will casrifice some non-vital items to their gods, to prevent situation when starving dwarfs will sacrifice their last meal or clothers they wear. Could be useful to make a recycling mechanic when dorfs will sacrifice their worn clothes if replacement is available in your stockpiles or there is an abdurance of food.
2. Living sacrifices.
Ranging from animals to sentient or semi-sentient creatures. Captured Goblins and others could be issued as a sacrifice to some bloodthirsty god just like pitting worked before.
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Shazbot

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2016, 01:34:21 pm »

The inability of dwarves to use temples for any meaningful activity bothers me to. I'd love to see some tables as altars or chairs as pews, then the fortress gathering on a holy day to slaughter a ram.
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Azerty

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2016, 02:34:20 pm »

You may add ex-votos as additional motive for sacrifices.

The value of the relationship between the worshipper and his god should depend from the value of the offering and the god's tastes - giving a child sacrifice to a kind deity should invite to retribution.

Specifics by kinds of sacrifices:
  • Prayers: They are more potent near an altar, and the betterment of the relation depends from their quality - if the Poet who redacted the prayer was crappy, the worshipper could have a decrase in relations!
  • Items: Worshippers should offer items such as clothes, coins, jewelry and statues; these items should be stored in the temple treasury. Perishables such as food or alcohol could be offered and, depending of the deity and the good, can be consumed, poured or burned.
  • Creatures: Depending from the ethics of the civilization, creatures should be offered to the deity, and they should either be butchered and eaten by the priest and/or the worshippers, or be destroyed by fire in a holocaust

(Aside note, how would the temple wealth treated? Should the player be able to sell or otherwise dispose part of it to make place or simply a little buick, risking the anger of the Proests/worshippers/deity?)
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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2016, 09:35:36 pm »

What's a little Buick?
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softfeel

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2016, 03:02:55 am »

What's a little Buick?

The holiest of automobiles
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Salmeuk

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2016, 06:42:26 pm »

I like the idea of a dwarf finding one of his favorite sorts of foods and being forced to choose between consuming it himself or sacrificing it to his God.

Sacrifices where you slaughter an animal or execute a prisoner should give positive thoughts to most dwarfs, since the vilence has a socially accepted purpose. Perhaps more sensitive or inexperienced individuals who haven't seen much death might find live sacrifice disturbing.

Would the sacrifice be "consumed" in the process via "magic disappearance because the god liked your offer" or would there be some sort of kiln or pyre used to send things towards the heavens? A sacred refuse vault for the blood-drained bulls?
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2016, 04:22:47 am »

Simplest form of sacrifice - some plant or thread or items. . . . a recycling mechanic when dorfs will sacrifice their worn clothes if replacement is available in your stockpiles or there is an abdurance of food.
Holy offerings shouldn't just be a slightly more flavorful variation on the atom smasher. The gods don't want your damn X+llama wool sock+X. The word sacrifice doesn't just mean stuff given to priests, it means a loss or hardship which is painful to endure. Temple sacrifices should be an outward show of inner devotion, and therefore they should be significant and meaningful.

Sacrifices should also be quite varied in their methods and manners, and appropriate to the relevant god's sphere(s) whenever possible.
It would probably be routine for every Grower who worships the god of Agriculture to tithe the first stack of crops that they harvest in every season. (These would probably be eaten raw by the priests in private, who would then store the seeds against emergency--if the fort ever runs out of seeds, it's only apropos that the church of Agriculture would "miraculously" provide them.)
A War deity would be pleased with an arena battle against captured enemies--provided that said enemies are armed & armored, NOT stripped naked & tied down.
A god of Youth might appreciate the gift of the very first bone bolts clumsily shaved by a dwarf who went on to become a Legendary Bone Carver. (The game has no way to identify such bolts at present, but one can dream.)
Worshipers of the god of Hospitality might maintain a shrine in the fort's Tavern, with a plate of good food replenished daily. This food would be free to visitors (although irreverent fort dwarves might also steal some).
The deity of Animals might like the gift of the fort's best stud Grizzly Bear, ritually slain after he's spent a couple of years impregnating the females--but when he also has several good years left in him, so the Animal Trainer who's donated him is actually losing something important.

Etc.
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Deboche

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2016, 09:17:31 am »

Perhaps more sensitive or inexperienced individuals who haven't seen much death might find live sacrifice disturbing.
We live much more sheltered lives than your average medieval peasant. Children back then learned to slaughter chickens and other animals from a young age. My mum grew up in a rural environment and she helped her grandfather do it. So I don't think sacrifice of non-sentients should be a problem.
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perspectivedesigns

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2016, 04:39:12 pm »

Using food as a sacrifice could be interesting if there are any starving dwarves or guests in your fortress. They might try to sneak into the temple and steal some of the food.
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Roofless

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2016, 05:11:30 am »

Simplest form of sacrifice - some plant or thread or items. . . . a recycling mechanic when dorfs will sacrifice their worn clothes if replacement is available in your stockpiles or there is an abdurance of food.
Holy offerings shouldn't just be a slightly more flavorful variation on the atom smasher. The gods don't want your damn X+llama wool sock+X.

If it's the last sock in the fortress, they will surely do want to have it. Sock deficiency tantrum spirals were quite a thing in the previous versions.
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Duck Slayer

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2016, 12:54:56 pm »

There is a community game posted where we all built temples. I improvised the sacrificing mechanic by linking a series of retracting bridges at the top of my temple dome...then I set the retracting bridges as a temple to the other gods that were not the god for which said temple was built. Which resulted in dumping countless dwarves who didn't worship the mighty drone bee god "Ad" to their deaths. I even improvised the followers lust for mead as a holy drink since the god the temple was built for is depicted as a large bee. While I am all for additional functionality, sometimes a lot of these features we request can be provised until more crucial parts of the game were fleshed out. Also I never was able to get my temple performers to actually perform even though I had countless stone triangles placed in my temple for them to beat on.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2016, 12:57:21 pm by Duck Slayer »
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Honalululand

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2016, 08:19:43 am »

We live much more sheltered lives than your average medieval peasant. Children back then learned to slaughter chickens and other animals from a young age. My mum grew up in a rural environment and she helped her grandfather do it. So I don't think sacrifice of non-sentients should be a problem.

It could be if we were sacrificing named animals, though. It's one thing to kill an animal; it's another to kill a pet.
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2016, 09:04:49 pm »

Holy offerings shouldn't just be a slightly more flavorful variation on the atom smasher. The gods don't want your damn X+llama wool sock+X.
If it's the last sock in the fortress, they will surely do want to have it. Sock deficiency tantrum spirals were quite a thing in the previous versions.
If there were a sphere of Clothing (or even Nudity), then yes, socks would be a desirable & appropriate offering. But as those spheres don't exist, the gods shouldn't demand garments, so as the number of spare socks in the fort approaches zero, so too does the chance that a sock would be bestowed in tribute. (That is, unless the gods will be given the same kinds of item/material preferences that dwarves have, so that a god of Wealth and Volcanoes might very well like llama wool and socks.)
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crazyabe

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2016, 09:21:42 pm »

PTW
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Col_Jessep

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Re: Temple sacrifices
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2016, 08:24:04 am »

I think a sacrifice should be something that is of value to the fortress or a specific dwarf. A good example would be alcohol which was often sacrificed by Romans if I'm not mistaken. They often sacrificed livestock as well. There could also be altars where dwarfs can light scented candles or burn small lamps fueled by expensive oils or extracts.

What do you think of the idea that dwarfs can sacrifice something of their own valued possessions to ask a god for help. Maybe if the mother of 3 children is in the hospital her husband would offer his favorite amulet to the gods or buy 3 dozen scented candles (once economy is back). I'm sure everybody who has seen a dwarven hospital from the inside would wish for all the divine help he can possibly get... =3
« Last Edit: February 14, 2016, 08:48:44 am by Col_Jessep »
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