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Author Topic: Book confusion  (Read 5232 times)

Blue_Dwarf

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Book confusion
« on: February 06, 2016, 03:43:09 am »

I could use a tutorial-for-dummies on the book system. I searched the forums and the wiki for explanations, but I still don't get it.

I built a room for a library, put some bookcases and a table/chair in it, and designated it as a separate meeting room with a library location.

The first caravan arrived and brought things like "The Economy in Theory (copy)". I assume those are books, so I bought them, and a couple dwarves took them and are reading them in the library. They are listed under Tools in the stock menu.

The caravan also has things like (+granite-bound codex+). Should I buy those maybe?

What else should I be doing about it? Is it an early game system, or should I be getting the rest of my fort established before I dabble into it more?
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Loci

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2016, 04:35:21 am »

Currently the library system is for entertainment purposes only--no actual gameplay (other than using the library itself) depends on it. As such, there isn't a "right" time to start your library, or a "proper" way to do it.

If you want your dwarves to write things (which can be mildly entertaining), you'll need to have some blank paper. You can purchase some from the caravans (look for "quires" or "scrolls") or make your own out of papyrus (easy), cloth plants (not too difficult), or animal skins (rather complicated). In order to make cloth paper, you need to mash the plants into a slurry at a millstone/quern, press the slurry into sheets at a screw press, and bind the sheets into a quire at a craftsdwarf's workshop. The first two steps require the "papermaking" labor, the third uses "bookbinding", I think.

Once you've got a healthy supply of quires, you can assign several dwarves as scholars from the (l)ocation screen, and, should the fancy strike them, they will write on one of many available subjects (and, in my experience, uniformly poorly). You can also assign one or more scribes to copy written works, so visitors won't walk off with all your books.

Finally, once your dwarves have written on quires, you can bind them into codexes at a craftsdwarf's workshop (using bind book). This appears to be optional (the quires can already be "read" and copied), and tends to reduce the value of the whole due to a bug, so you may prefer just to leave your dwarves' works in quire form.
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Blue_Dwarf

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2016, 04:46:34 am »

Oh, so that's what those things are...

Then there's no difference between books? I somehow got the idea that I could train dwarves if I get them to write something about medicine.
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Loci

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2016, 04:54:19 am »

"Train" is probably overstating it. Reading a book can provide a very minor skill gain... generally just enough to avoid skill rust. And dwarves seem to only read a book once, so you'd need an endless stream of medical texts to sustain any long-term medical skill gains. But, theoretically, yes, you can train your medical staff with books.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2016, 04:58:45 am »

There is another benefit from books, and that is that they apparently satisfy dwarven needs for "introspection" when read.
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martinuzz

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2016, 09:09:39 am »

Likewise, pondering and or discussing satisfy the need for abstract thinking, and reading a new book satisfies the need for learning something.
So they're not completely useless or unnescessary. In long term forts you'll want a library to get rid of red thought distractions.

Also, certain books whose topic is "the value of X", "the nuances of X" or "the worthlessness of X" are said to be able to shift the reader's personal values.

And ofcourse there's certain spoilery books of doom that'll completely change your FUN levels.
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greycat

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2016, 02:10:57 pm »

What else should I be doing about it?

Depends on your level of commitment to books.  I would suggest putting in way more tables and chairs, because reading is pretty popular.

Then, if you want, assign 1-2 dwarves as Scribes.  Scribes will make copies of books, so when a visitor absconds with one, you have backups.  In order to make copies, or write new books, you'll need some writing materials.  The easiest way is to grow pig tails, turn those into slurry, press the slurry into paper, then turn the paper into quires.  Build some chests in the library to store the writing materials, and you're all set.  (You don't need ink.  You also don't need to turn the quires into codexes -- in fact, there are bugs with codexes that make you lose value if you do that.)

Finally, if you want to produce a lot of original books, assign some dwarves as Scholars.  They won't write very often, especially at first, but eventually they will.
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Killgoth

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2016, 04:26:04 pm »

Books can also be used to mold your population's values.  By carefully buying books that discuss certain topics, and choosing scholars that have certain values---you can effectively turn most of your children/future peasants into lawful citizens who value hard work and loyalty.
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Bumber

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2016, 07:31:37 pm »

Finally, once your dwarves have written on quires, you can bind them into codexes at a craftsdwarf's workshop (using bind book). This appears to be optional (the quires can already be "read" and copied), and tends to reduce the value of the whole due to a bug, so you may prefer just to leave your dwarves' works in quire form.
If codices are supposed to be written on before they're bound, does that mean the blank ones from caravans are useless? (At least, I'm assuming they're blank. They don't have a title, but I haven't looked closely at the description.)

Edit: They weren't blank, they were about ores. All 5 of my codices were about ores.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 07:47:21 am by Bumber »
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martinuzz

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2016, 07:37:14 pm »

codex always contains text. Can't bind a blank quire. Look at the descriptions, then decide what to buy. Caravans can bring awesome books.
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greycat

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2016, 09:13:16 pm »

The lack of a displayed title on a codex is (in my opinion) one of the bugs with them.  The other bug is the loss of value.
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Niddhoger

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2016, 01:06:29 am »

The bug that allowed visitors to walk off with books and goblets was fixed for 42.05.

BOOKS don't teach dwarves skills- discussions, pondering, and learning from a master will (all scholar stuff).  Reading just increases reader and maybe student skills.  So a text on bandaging won't train "wound dressing" but it will improve student.

Practically, libraries are just there to help with stress and satisfy intellectual needs (Urist McMiller felt SATISFIED after learning about Source Reliability!).  So you generally won't set up a library util the first caravan arrives and you buy a couple books off them.  They can be expensive, but its seriously a good idea to buy at least a single book from the first caravan.  Then you set up a library and just about everyone will take their turn with the book.  Scholars (especially untrained ones) take forever to right nothing, so you don't want your weaponsmith "unfocused" from lack of reading when hes trying to make steel masterwork axes. 

The next use is for your medical staff.  The skill gains from scholarly discourse might as well be non-existant.  I'm talking about scholars that spend years without getting past NOVICE critica thinking.  However, all these "nickels and dimes" to experience will prevent skill rust on lesser used labors, like medicine.  If you embark with a doctor in case of emergencies, you can assign him as your sole scholar after you've gotten enough migrants to retire him from hauler duty.  He'll argue with visiting scholars, and might even write some books.  When you need him to actually start doctorin', you have to unassign him as a scholar though.

Last, its a population dump.  The military is a more effective one, but you don't need 150 soldiers.  100 is usually more than plenty.  Better yet, military training improves student/teacher levels that help with increased learning from mentorships.  So you can 'retire" military squads into your library.  They should all gain masters from more skilled scholars, and receive faster training this way.   Then, if some major !FUN! eats up the rest of your military, you can redraft the "student-warriors" back into military service.  Bonus points if you only do this with naked "wrestlers" for that ancient Greek philosopher vibe :p

So in a typical fort, don't bother even carving out a library until the first caravan.  Then buy a few books (at least one).  This is a fairly important step, as dwarves can gain crafting debuffs equal to hungry/tired/thirsty from not satisfying a need... like for learning.  You don't want your weaponsmith "unfocused/distracted" from not getting to read while trying to forge steel axes.  You can't count on untrained scholars or visiting sages to just write books for you either.  You can usually get a cheap 200-300 buck copy to last you for now.  Then you either assign any medical dwarfs as scholars, or retire high-level mechanics and furnace operators when you can spare replacements.  Finally, once you have at least 3-5 squads training, you can start diverting new recruits to the library over more soldiers.  In particular, don't send dwarves that hate abstract thinking to the library nor send dwarves that find military training disrespectful to the military.   
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Loci

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2016, 08:19:20 am »

The bug that allowed visitors to walk off with books and goblets was fixed for 42.05.

Neither the changelog nor the bug tracker agree with that statement.
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Blue_Dwarf

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2016, 12:23:02 pm »

These replies are perfect, just what I need to make informed decisions :)
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Niddhoger

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Re: Book confusion
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2016, 06:16:10 pm »

The bug that allowed visitors to walk off with books and goblets was fixed for 42.05.

Neither the changelog nor the bug tracker agree with that statement.
This is the changelog entry for 42.05

01/17/2016Toady One Here's another one! We're still going to be working through adventure reputation/quest/etc. improvements, so consider this a first stage. Other highlights are the fortress mode sparring and mug-carrying fixes. Enjoy your zombies.

New stuff
New hearth orders for killing beasts and fighting outlaws
Added a hunter reputation and cleaned up reputation system around beast-slaying
Made citizens understand their relationship to bandits and added reputation for protecting people from them
A few lizards

Major bug fixes
Made drunken dwarves spar properly again
Stopped dwarves from carrying mugs forever

I assumed this fix applied to visitors as well, and I thought it was the same issue with carrying books off... but haven't properly paid attention in fort mode to be sure visitors are only leaving with the books they arrived with.  Remember, visitors frequently arrive with their own literature, so you can't just scream bloody murder anytime a human dancer leaves with a book.
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