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[Elephant Parade]

I just prodded EP.

Idea: If everyone agrees, how about a one week limit for finishing the game?  If nobody is lynched by that point, everyone loses.

I'm not sure. I'm going to be busy-ish for the next week, but I'll probably still have the opportunity to post at least a few times per day. Thing is, I'll be visiting with family I haven't seen for a while, so I don't really want to computer-zombie out. I'll answer this in a couple of days, if that's okay.

Wait, hold on. Has it really been four days since Elephant Parade posted? That's past the 48 hour mark even with our silent agreement to take weekends off :/

Yeah, I felt pretty unmotivated after I lost the post I was working on (which was entirely my fault), but that's not really an excuse. I'll be travelling for most of tomorrow, so I'll try to rebuild it today.

[origamiscienceguy]

@ Rearie

I was thinking you could have agreed with roo to accept the risk of the venekill and roo would be a reletiely silent killer at that point. After thinking it over, if I was on the outside looking in, That would seem more likely than what you were suggesting about me, but not by all that much. So. I am thinking that I will change my vote to ElephantParade since fom a third peson perspective, he has not done much of anything, very neutal in everything. Which would be a great scum disguise. I still have a bad feeling about you, Revarie, but after some days (and nights) of contemplation, I think that EP is actually more likely (statistically) to be scum.

[Reverie]

That doesn't really add up. If I was scum and vengekilled, there's no doubt in my mind that roo would be a popular choice for the chopping block on D2. TempAcc was suspicious of him, you were voting for him, and it would have been very dumb of me to carry on with the mislynch.

As for your vote on Elephant Parade, I'll stay out of that for the time being. I want him to post.

[Elephant Parade]

D2 posts in which OSG attacks:

ouch.

there are three of us left. I have noticed that Revarie had been sort of ignoring roo for most of day 1, not attacking him.

This is hilariously weak, but it was one of the first posts of D2. The fact that OSG came out fighting is a point in his favour.

The townie who was lynched would probably vengekill the guy who I thought was scum because I was "pretending to be on their side" according to your theory, then they would listen. So why wuldn't I just pressure him to vengekill another townie and win the game outright? It ends the day earlier. Your theory makes no sense, and I don't see why you continue trying to find a reason to lynch me. Unless you are scum. That is.

This stuff has been argued pretty thoroughly, so I'm going to just say I disagree and leave it at that. If you need a refresher, just click the quote.

ow.ow.ow

I managed to put another one of my grievences into words:

Revarie controlled the day1 lynch, Roo (godfather) and EP followed you. The only person who didn't follow you (and thus dragged the day for a week or so) was me. I was the only one who didn't follow you like you expected. So when day 2 comes along, you know EP will follow you, so you go after me instead.

I'm not sure how I feel about this one. It's an attack, I guess, though it's worth noting that OSG's core reason for not following the TempAcc lynch only worked because three people were already voting him; had that *not* happened, OSG could (presumably) have ended up voting for him.

I was thinking you could have agreed with roo to accept the risk of the venekill and roo would be a reletiely silent killer at that point. After thinking it over, if I was on the outside looking in, That would seem more likely than what you were suggesting about me, but not by all that much. So. I am thinking that I will change my vote to ElephantParade since fom a third peson perspective, he has not done much of anything, very neutal in everything. Which would be a great scum disguise. I still have a bad feeling about you, Revarie, but after some days (and nights) of contemplation, I think that EP is actually more likely (statistically) to be scum.

My response to this is below the dividing line.

So, yeah. OSG has been pretty defensive throughout the entire day; his three attacks at Reverie were pretty weak, and he only threw stuff at me after I mentioned he hadn't. Does this mean he's scum? I don't know, and, rather than spending the next four days coming to a conclusion, I'm just going to post this stuff so people can discuss it. I'll think about it in the car tomorrow, I guess. I think his defensiveness is a point against him, but it could also be a natural reaction towards being pressured by two people.

My gut feeling, if you're wondering, is that his defensiveness is because he's scum. I generally don't trust gut feelings, though.

I think that EP is actually more likely (statistically) to be scum.

What do you mean by "statistically"? As for being neutral: I've been kind of hesitant to take strong positions, since mislynches are so absurdly horrible in this game, and I don't want to be the new player that makes the town lose. At the same time, strong positions are required for anything to get done; I think I've learned that from this game. I tend to waffle in real life, too; it's not just Mafia.

Also, this is my first hammer-based game, and my response to the style was both a paralyzing fear of voting and a tendency towards procrastination. I am probably going to avoid hammer-based games in the future, for the most part.

So, yeah; the combination of a hammer and a low playercount makes me feel a bit nervous about taking strong positions, because it's really bad if I'm wrong—if anyone is wrong.

[origamiscienceguy]

By statistically, I meant that it would be riskier for revarie to do the day 1 mislynch than it would have been for you. From your perspective, you had a townie on the wagon, and another townie theatened for vengekill. Roo was slightly suspicious, but you weren't. Revarie, on the other hand was said to be vengekill and again, roo was slightly suspicious. My gut feeling says that revarie is scum, but from that perspective, you look more likely.

[Reverie]

Hey guys, just FYI, I'll be away for this weekend starting tomorrow morning and will be back late on Monday (for Easter). I'll be continuing this on Tuesday.

[origamiscienceguy]

Well, bye then.

[Reverie]

I can feel your frustration through the internet :/


I apologise in advance, I know this thing has been drawn out too long.

[Elephant Parade]

Posting to avoid a prod, I guess.

After thinking about the defensiveness stuff for a while, it seems suspicious—but not super-suspicious? Combined with the other stuff he's done, it makes me almost certain he's scum. This opinion probably isn't all that useful to anyone else, but I did say I'd reach a conclusion.

[origamiscienceguy]

Well, you blame me for making few attacks, when that accusation was the first attack you made all game. Everything else was silently following in the shadows.

[Elephant Parade]

Well, you blame me for making few attacks, when that accusation was the first attack you made all game. Everything else was silently following in the shadows.

This is not actually true.

TempAcc: The only questions you've asked have been RVS questions, and now you've voted without even asking one. Ask some questions, please.

Situation has not changed.

And it likely won't, unless you ask questions!

So, yeah. TempAcc: Why haven't you been asking any questions? If you have the time, why not ask a question of each person you have a scum read on?

OSG: It has been two days. Outside of your RVS questions, you have only directed questions at roo; in fact, excluding question responses—you ignored my question, by the way—and a few short responses to posts, you have only interacted with roo. Take your blinders off! Again: What are your reads?

Unvote.

TempAcc: You could have at least checked my profile page, and maybe my recent posts. Had you done so, you would have found that I haven't been active today, except maybe in the early morning. The fact that you didn't tells me that you're less interested in finding scum, and more interested in diverting attention.

It's also possible that you were just lazy, of course, but you really should have checked. It's one click to see if I'm online, and another few to see if I've been posting.

Fake-edit: Looking through the recent posts again, I found that you couldn't have been trying to divert any attention—unless roo's your scumbuddy, and I notice that you haven't commented on the L-1 post, despite being the one at L-1—since the attention wasn't on you in the first place. I guess it's more likely that you were just being lazy, then.

I'm willing to do that.
Unvote
roo

But let's do it in blue since that is the color most typically used.

If faux-voting is a full replacement for regular voting, it should be in green so we can still FoS. Remember, you only get one vote at a time!

So tl;dr basically I don't believe temps account.

He said that his vote was random and nonsensical but has a "abstract" reason. But it is totally random.

The abstract reason was seeing how reverie would react or act.

Originally I thought the vote was random then it was revealed that it wasn't. I thought oh okay it was a reaction test of sorts. But it was revealed by temp that it wasn't a reaction test and holds to his stance that it was random. It's just a lot of spin.

tempacc

That is -1 btw

This is pretty shady. I mean, pressure voting and all, but you shouldn't put somebody at -1 in a hammer-based game without a really good reason. You were clearly aware that it was -1, too, since you mentioned it in your post.

Roo, by saying "1 more until hammer" but not doing anything to stop someone from hammeing, it makes you look eager to see the lynch happening. Almost like you wanted somebody to do the hammer, but either they weren't around or they thought of the consequences.

Uh, if roo wanted to say "hey, scumbuddy, lynch this dude", wouldn't he have used their scumchat? Unless you're saying that he was trying to tempt a townie into lynching, which is possible, I guess, though I can't see it working.

I find the L-1 comment suspicious because it shows he knew what he was doing, but I'm not sure it means anything beyond that.

I put forward the motion that we discuss organising a hammer once we reach three faux votes on a player. All in favour?

Agreed. I think that the discussion should last at least 24 hours, though, since people are likely going to be more casual with "fake" votes than real ones.

You just put a second vote on someone. 3 votes is to hammer. That means that all it would take is one vote from a scum to end this day prematurely. Assuming tempacc is town, his vengekill would prrobably go on the hammerer, but we would have no way of knowing for sure. Either way, the scum would live on to day 2, and town would not have learned anything. So I was voting you because getting someone close to a hammer is not a town action to do.

I am fully aware of how many people it takes to hammer somebody osg. I said -1. As in it takes one more person to hammer.

My supposedly non-town action is not deferring to forum culture on how a game should be played. What do you wanna talk about osg? Do you disagree with rev and me? If so why? You haven't said anything. Even here you say "Assuming temp is town". Wtf? You are a fucking omnishambles right now and have zero clue about what is going on. And you want to dictate how I play and when I can vote?

Was my vote not optimal? If so why not? Does my vote not achieve discussion pressure and having the hammer be absolutely certain of their choice? Putting someone at -2 pushes the game forward vastly.

Don't talk to me about voting for supposedly attempting to end the day prematurely. Back to this in a bit. That vote was terrible. Now how did you know it would end the day and not the game?

That's a really interesting argument, though I'm not sure I agree; whether it's a good argument is of secondary importance to the argument's honesty, though. I can see this being an honest attempt to stir up activity, especially since the last couple of days have been slow.

Still, the L-1 post could also have been an attempted quickhammer, like OSG suggested.

roo: Do you still think that putting TempAcc at L-1 was worth it? In a similar situation, would you do so [put a player at L-1] again, even knowing that doing so is against Mafia etiquette, and thus likely to disrupt the game?

There are probably more further in, but that should be all I need to prove that no, you are flat-out lying.

[origamiscienceguy]

You were always with somebody on those accusations though. Seems like you're just trying to justify your position on the wagon rather than create your own arguments out of nothing.

[Elephant Parade]

You were always with somebody on those accusations though. Seems like you're just trying to justify your position on the wagon rather than create your own arguments out of nothing.

That doesn't seem to be the case with the this one, unless I missed something.

[origamiscienceguy]

That was a pressure vote. You wanted my reads, I gave them to you, you unvoted next post.

Also, holey moley. You don't seem to like my vote on you very much.

[Elephant Parade]

That was a pressure vote. You wanted my reads, I gave them to you, you unvoted next post.

...Yes? It was? It was still an attack, right? Why would I have kept my vote on you?

Fake-edit: I guess I didn't explicitly say I found your focus suspicious; I suppose I thought it would be implied? Or maybe I wasn't all that suspicious of you, at the time. Heck if I know.

Also, holey moley. You don't seem to like my vote on you very much.

Actually, I don't like that you lied. It's true that I've mostly been following along—I explained why earlier, I believe—though I wouldn't go so far as "silently following in the shadows"; what isn't true is that my most recent accusation is the first I've made. You can argue (incorrectly, I think) that it's the first original one, but not the first one altogether.

Well, you blame me for making few attacks, when that accusation was the first attack you made all game. Everything else was silently following in the shadows.