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Author Topic: Archcrystal: 500 years in a fortress [SPOILERS] Finished  (Read 470078 times)

NCommander

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #420 on: November 16, 2017, 02:25:18 am »

The lever or the item on the table?

The lever is a trick I learned awhile ago to get scholars to actually use the library. The lever itself isn't connected to anything but it's in the library zone so if you set a profile so only the scholars/scribles can use it, then pull it high priority, they'll cancel their current job, and come pull it, and then immediately take a scholar job such as writing books. Unfortunately, my PC decided to reboot for updates after I fell asleep and I didn't hardsave the fort since applying the mods to it, so that world vanished. Right now, I want to see if I can get quicklime to actually work; it bugs me that it thinks magma is a reagent.

The item on the table was a written quire. Anyway, have some more teasers.









In my head, I like to think he divided by zero, and the effect caused my PC to reboot :). What I need to do now is after futzing with quicklime and then the civilization tags so that books are a permitted labor. That will let book materials show up in trade cavarns and may cause books to start generating in the wild.

EDIT: I noticed you have a breeding pair of bogstandard dragons. I'm curious why you didn't launch a secondary breeding project here :) (though it might require a whack of DFHack to get that to work properly) ... and you have "tamable" husks ... WTF?

EDIT 2: Ok, I understand why quicklime is broken; the broken definition defaults to item id 0 ... which is magma. Inorganics actually are saved in world.dat and are NOT dynamically re-loaded from the raws like other objects (aka, they're like reactions). Need to figure out how to add it there.

EDIT 3: Wrote a quick patch to DFHack, and successfully injected the inorganics into the save (I'll send this upstream). Quicklime and Milk of Lime work now.



The entire point of this? Demon-bound books :). Unfortunately, today I learned Hydra's don't have skin as per the raws so they don't generate skin when slaughtered. Trying to see what I can get the dwarfs to kill in the test copy.

(as a note, I'm testing on other saves; the save I'll hand back will be at or close to the moment you uploaded it. Some testing will make sure I didn't accidently destablize the fort or something but I'm not at the point where I hand it back. Looking at the tower in game is nuts)

EDIT 4: Tamed and then slaughtered a roc. Handy tip; if you want to make parchment, make sure auto-tan is disabled.



Now I need to test making a rocing quire and a rocing scroll, and actually test if the codex creation step works.

EDIT 5: BLAMO:




I ran into the idle dwarf glitch where dwarves decide to simply stop taking some hauling jobs. I used workNow to clear it and as soon as the quire and the scrolls were delivered to the library at which point I got the above quire. Testing if it actually will bind to a codex. That confirms both parchment and slurry works correctly. I assume papyrus does but I'm too lazy to go setup an entire outdoor farm to test it.

Interesting, when I looked at the world written_works, there are actually written books *in the world* already. It looks like necromancer slabs got converted to codexs; there are 22 within the world and I can see them in Legends mode on my reference copy of the save.

MORE EDITING: Book copying works


I was waiting to see if the Dwarven caravan would have book materials but I got a siege instead :(. I'm poking musical forms with legends mode with a stick to figure out how they work.

FINAL EDIT: I checked the entity tags and it turns out they automatically load permitted jobs; no world.sav/dat editing required. A trawl through Legends tells me there's no Historical Scholars as of yet so none will visit the fort, but that MIGHT change as now scholars are now permitted for the entity types that should have it in the raws. I made a release candidate save with books fixed, and running a copy of it now with invasions turned off so I make sure things are stable, and see if the cavarans bring book materials like they should. Hypothetically, it should be possible for scholars to now generate in the world.

Poetry and forms and such should be fixable but I can't figure out how forms are linked to civilizations. I may fiddle with it more if I can be motivated to write the necessary tools to shove the necessary entities into the save. Instruments are more difficult, I'd essentially have to gen a new world with these raws, pull the generated instruments out, and then load the reactions in. Supposedly, it's possible to define "static" instruments through raws, but I couldn't find a definitive way to do it, and without forms, they'd remain useless.

ACTUAL FINAL UPDATE (for this post): w00t. Entities are properly registering the ability to make books. With the fort just running in the background and a bunch of quires made, I've gotten three books thus far. I'm going to let this run in the background for the rest of the day to make sure everything is stable and kosher. I need to check the human caravan and see if they bring book and book like materials.



Sethatos: I need to know if there's anything you'd like tweaked or such. Fix for dragons so they'll be peaceful if tamed, make it possible to train a legendary blowgunner, etc. My plan is to let this run for a few years in the background and make sure everything is stable, and then upload back the release candidate save which should have only had a few ticks pass in it; no desire to steal your show here.

I did experience some weirdness that the wagons bypassed the site despite the D screen showing a path. They spawned on the top corner of the map. I've sent some wood cutters to clear the map some. We'll see what happens when the humans arrive. I also noticed your dragons are injuried. I wrote a plugin for DFHack called dwarfvet which actually allows the Animal Caretaker job to work. You also have a river draining into a river at the base of the surface tower which is likely isn't doing the FPS any favors.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 09:50:04 am by NCommander »
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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #421 on: November 16, 2017, 11:30:17 am »

Kill all demons in hell might be ...difficult, but they're an infinite source of meat till then. If the ones made of ash dropped ash bars, fertilizer too, but alas not.

@NCommander: Nice job. I'd say it'd be neat to make it into a patch, but that seems pointlessly complicated/foolhardy when this is only the second fort it's done for in years, and there's no active community 40.24 forts other than this afaik.

If you kill Autumn siege quickly enough you can still get caravan. No idea if they arrive on map even in time here though.

Oh yeah, about dwarfvet, I've been wondering if beyond makeown it doesn't break other race petitioners as well, since their race won't match own_race_id. Haven't bothered to test due not having active 43.05 fort with injured animals, though.

Sethatos

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #422 on: November 16, 2017, 12:00:49 pm »

NCommander, thanks so much! Looks awesome.

I don't really need anything  else tweaked, as I'm fine with the other elements of the game for the most part. And yes, I think I have breeding pairs of every mega beast, but I'm keeping their populations under wraps to save fps. The waterfalls were there originally as natural features which I rebuilt in clear glass to have it run through the tower. Even when I dammed the rivers I didn't see an increase in fps, in fact I'm not sure anything will help there as the save file is just too big now, with centuries of the fortress to process.

The Cave Dragons that were injured in the invasion to hell can keep their wounds too, I like having it as a living reminder to the sacrifice of those dwarves as that generation is gone now, so I'd rather not have dwarfvet active. The caravans have always appeared at the top of the map no matter where the entrance is, I think it's because I had the disappearing caravan bug that I fixed with the dfhack command fix-merchants or some such command, but I don't really trade anymore so I don't mind the wagons not coming as it's just one less thing that might get evil-clouded into husk form. That trade depot is just temporary anyways, as I'm going to eventually build a tunnelled ramp from the top of the map all the way to the magma sea for the wagons. That way my trade depot will be just a little bit above the fortress in hell. Also, if you need to kill a siege quickly just send squads a and j out and they usually grind a few hundred goblins up in minutes. :)

 Thanks again for doing this! I'm really looking forward to having a functioning library.

EDIT: Also, I just want to make sure that I can make the bookcases out of glass for obvious reasons. ;)
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 12:05:57 pm by Sethatos »
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NCommander

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #423 on: November 16, 2017, 12:12:01 pm »

Kill all demons in hell might be ...difficult, but they're an infinite source of meat till then. If the ones made of ash dropped ash bars, fertilizer too, but alas not.

@NCommander: Nice job. I'd say it'd be neat to make it into a patch, but that seems pointlessly complicated/foolhardy when this is only the second fort it's done for in years, and there's no active community 40.24 forts other than this afaik.

If you kill Autumn siege quickly enough you can still get caravan. No idea if they arrive on map even in time here though.

Oh yeah, about dwarfvet, I've been wondering if beyond makeown it doesn't break other race petitioners as well, since their race won't match own_race_id. Haven't bothered to test due not having active 43.05 fort with injured animals, though.

dwarvet: I actually haven't checked it with taverns but it automatically excludes anything that can't be tamed which should be all the generic/default entities. I did the initial port of DFHack to 43.03 (and the 05) and then fell out of the DF community due to burnout. However, there's a LOT of checks in the code to make sure stupid doesn't happen. makeown has problems because it doesn't set a tameness level if you seize a random unit, nor does it link it to historical figure status which is why you get weirdness with it. I should probably go in and modify how makeown works.

I don't believe citizens ever fully join your civilization; they're considered a part of your group, but not the civilization itself. This prevents you from setting labors on them. Military I believe walks links and not the civ_id tag which is why makeown usually fucks up with making said units work in military and such. I experimented a LOT with that with the prime minister goblin on Doomforest. If he was a member of the group, he was treated as a visitor. To actually get him working I had to make him a full member of the civilization, then craft a masterwork soul for him so he'd actually work the way you'd expect. I think this is fixed now, but non-civ members prior to taverns had just the bare set of thoughts and attributes and he was from a prior version of DF.

The funny/sad part is for Smunstu, I mostly went through with all that work because I felt slightly guilty on offing him off originally, and people really wanted him to be the king (or prime minister). Re-reading that part of the thread, I seriously went a bit nuts there to get him to strange mood since I had to patch DFHack to let me do something it thought was nonsensical, and then even more hacking to put his dwarf bone crown on his head. Then again, I still found it amusing he reported his own death and then let out a roaring laughter fell and terrible, and his great goal in life was to make a masterwork item.

I'm trying to figure out why Archcrystal doesn't get visitors beyond the diplomats. Humans, elves and goblins can reach the site, and I don't believe being in an evil biome excludes the possibility of getting them either. I suspect the tavern might be bugged. I *vaguely* remember Doomforest didn't get visitors until I deleted all the taverns and recreated them, but I can't even find it in the lower fort to try that.

NCommander, thanks so much! Looks awesome.

I don't really need anything  else tweaked, as I'm fine with the other elements of the game for the most part. And yes, I think I have breeding pairs of every mega beast, but I'm keeping their populations under wraps to save fps. The waterfalls were there originally as natural features which I rebuilt in clear glass to have it run through the tower. Even when I dammed the rivers I didn't see an increase in fps, in fact I'm not sure anything will help there as the save file is just too big now, with centuries of the fortress to process.

The Cave Dragons that were injured in the invasion to hell can keep their wounds too, I like having it as a living reminder to the sacrifice of those dwarves as that generation is gone now, so I'd rather not have dwarfvet active. The caravans have always appeared at the top of the map no matter where the entrance is, I think it's because I had the disappearing caravan bug that I fixed with the dfhack command fix-merchants or some such command, but I don't really trade anymore so I don't mind the wagons not coming as it's just one less thing that might get evil-clouded into husk form. That trade depot is just temporary anyways, as I'm going to eventually build a tunnelled ramp from the top of the map all the way to the magma sea for the wagons. That way my trade depot will be just a little bit above the fortress in hell. Also, if you need to kill a siege quickly just send squads a and j out and they usually grind a few hundred goblins up in minutes. :)

 Thanks again for doing this! I'm really looking forward to having a functioning library.

EDIT: Also, I just want to make sure that I can make the bookcases out of glass for obvious reasons. ;)

I actually tested to make sure that works. You can make bookcases, scroll rollers and book bindings out of glass just fine, though its hard to find on the menu and there's no key shortcut. The current fort has four bookcases, and five books (and a couple of copies) thus far. It's run through the end of the year and idling at about 15 FPS so it will take a few more hours before I'm confident I didn't bork the world.

I suppose if you want to go crazy, I could add a glass parchment type but there is such a thing as overkill ... though TBH, I'm probably talking about the wrong fort as far as THAT goes.

Water FPS: it looks like the lower river MIGHT have bugged and is stuck in the flowing state. Fixing that is kinda annoying esp. if its becase caused by evaporation (that happened on Breadbowl and I couldn't fix it).
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 12:25:04 pm by NCommander »
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Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

Sethatos

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #424 on: November 16, 2017, 12:21:03 pm »

Archcrystal gets visitors to the tavern once or twice a year. Usually goblin (they are the closest), but sometimes human. It's infrequent though as sometimes one or two years will pass with no visitors at all.
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NCommander

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #425 on: November 16, 2017, 12:30:07 pm »

Archcrystal gets visitors to the tavern once or twice a year. Usually goblin (they are the closest), but sometimes human. It's infrequent though as sometimes one or two years will pass with no visitors at all.

We're racing either other. Right now, entity flags now allow dwarfs/humans/elves/goblins to become scholars (possibly, I'm not sure it will work correctly for humans, I might need to edit their raws more to specifically code the list). Humans use an unusual tag for scholars that set to generate it based on values. I have no idea if that will work post-worldgen or not.

At the moment, you won't get any as scholars don't exist in the world, but they might start in the future. If your original books start leaving Archcrystal, they'll start moving around the world and causing a chain reaction of knowledge.
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Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #426 on: November 16, 2017, 12:52:10 pm »

omg sweet.
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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #427 on: November 16, 2017, 04:14:29 pm »

Glass parchment is...A little nonsensical, though perhaps glass slabs/blackboard/etching sheets make more sense. Dwarven beards, toughest material known to dwarf, can cut diamond after all. Still, doesn't seem like it'd be flexible enough to bind into a book, plus clear glass book might be slightly difficult to read.

dwarfvet: doubleplusgood, then. Thought it may have been 43.05 exclusive.

It's residents who can't get labours, though. Citizens who petition a second time can ([ur=https://i.imgur.com/L96JfWI.png]Rope[/url] from GloomDiamonds).

Not that it matters here without visitors, and you already traded...Though, wait, did that scroll have anything written on it?

Smunstu story sounds like a nice read, once I get arond to Doomforests.

@Sethatos:

Who still remembers the old queen?

Who still remembers the starting 7?

Who still remembers the one who put the base of the civ's knowledge on cave dragon taming?

The cave dragon remembers.

It reminds me of some ancient trees or centuries-old turtles.

NCommander

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #428 on: November 16, 2017, 04:31:26 pm »

Personal Recollections of Ast Konosoth
Mayor of Gostzas
===


Today, we had an unusual visitor from the outer lands. Clad in worn robes, with a spear on her back, and a crossbow at her side, the dwarf simply walked up to the bridge and gazed up at the pinnacle we've constructed into the sky. Normally this would not be of note, but something about this Id Matulcog was ... otherworldly. I do not know how to explain it better than that. She seemed to know the purpose of Archcrystal at a glance, and domination of the nightmares below.

She seemed somewhat surprised that there were living dwarfs, and after some hesitation, agreed to come down to the tavern for a pint of beer. Imagine my surprise when  I saw that under her robe she wore a full set of adamantite armor, and on closer inspection, her blade was made of the same material. When I inquired on where she got it, she merely stated it was a relic of her home, and refused to elaborate further.

---

The following day, I spotted Id walking the length of the grand halls below the fort. Out of something of a morbid curiosity, I tailed her for a time. I think she was aware of me, but said nothing. As she stepped into the slade cavern below, I could see her briefly tense up, before inspecting our cave dragons.



"Rare you see them at this size ... You guys have been here awhile I take it?"

Startled, I responded, "Just short of 375 years to the day."

She stopped dead in her tracks, and stared at me. She blinked. “Do you have a library?”

I nodded, and led her to the The Inky Bowels, a center of knowledge and learning. Erush was sitting at one of the tables, pondering the meaning of stars or some other nonsense like that. He completely ignored us for a moment.

“Where are the books?

“Books?”

“I’m sorry, madam, but we don’t have of these books you speak of …”

“How do you record things then? You know, history and such?”

“With the occassionally stone tablet, but they’re too bulky to use for anything beyond basic organization …”

Id pinched the bridge of her nose, and for a moment, I thought she was going to lash before letting out an exasperated sigh. “Come with me, I’m going to give you the best gift I can …”. Leading us to the main haul, she grabbed a bunch of pigtails, and began to ground them on a quern before adding water.



I watched her take the slurry, and begin pounding it into a paste with a screw paste, watching carefully to make sure that she extracted all the water out of the slurry, and then spread the rolls on a nearby crafts ship. As they hung, she asked me where I could find some coal or possibly charcoal. Something black.

Curious on what she was making, I located a lump lying near the original smelters, and handed it to her. Taking out a dagger, she grounded the coal into a black powder with the hilt, and poured it into a goblet, and retrieved a roc feather from our stocks. At the base, she cut it, and then dipped it in the coal slurry.

“Let’s see if I did this right.”

With a practiced hand, she began to write on the dried pig tail slurry, created recognizable letters and characters. “Good, now pay attention, this is how you’ll preserve yourself and everything you were.”, and motioned for us to return to the library. Sitting at a desk, she began to write. Erush walked over and watched in amazement.

“So this is called paper?”

“Yeah, something I learned in a place very far away ....”

On the quire (which is what she called the stack of papers), Id wrote out a detailed list of instructions detailing the creation of paper via a pig tail slurry, as well as two additional methods on creating parchment with a substance known as quicklime, and a method involving specific types of papyrus plants.

Additionally, she listed designs for a new type of item she called a bookcase, methods of binding the quires in longer lasting codexes.

“That should cover most of it … I think, now to bind this properly into an actual book.”

And with that, the first codex of Archcrystal came into existence, which became later known as the “Librum Primum”. Over the next several days, many of the scholars began committing their thoughts to paper. Id spoke very little, and simply wandered as a ghost in the library.

A week later, I spotted Id filling her backpack with supplies, and refilling her waterskins.

“Leaving already?”

“Yeah … I’m not needed …”

“Needed?”

Id shrugged, “Just a thing I need to do. Rarely do I find places so close the void filled with life.”

“The void?”

“Don’t worry about it. Not your problem. It was nice to stay somewhere with actual company for once, and the glass is beautiful. I don’t see much of it in my travels …”

“... You know, you’re welcome to stay if you want. It’s within my power to grant residency here at Archcrystal, and I’m convinced the king could grant you citizenship for your knowledge alone?”

I actually got a small grin out of her, “What, me? Knowlege? I’m just a marksdwarf who learned a bit in her travels. I might remember of siege operations though ...”

I actually glared at her, “One who has possibly revolutionized the sharing and storage of knowledge. You’re as much a marksdwarf as I’m the king!”

She shrugged, and continued to load supplies. That wasn’t enough to stop me, “Where are you from, where are you going?”

That got her attention, “Ast, I’ve walked the the infinite planes for far longer than you realize. There are SOME things you are simply better off not knowing. My home was destroyed in a fit of madness and depravity long ago. I’m all that remains.”

I tried to respond, but no words came to me.

“Use what I taught you. Preserve your knowledge for future generations, and let it spread throughout the world. Everything ends, Ast, everything. Even this place will eventually. It may not been for years to come, but it will. Let the legacy of Archcrystal, it’s history, it’s stories, it’s knowledge live on.”

Id holstered her backpack.
“I’ll leave in the morning. One final drink and a nice bed to rest in before I continue on.”

Unable to think of anything to say, I followed Id to the tavern. She didn’t say much aside from a minor disappointment for not having fisher berry wine in the stocks.

The following morning, I walked with her up the flight of stairs leading to the jungle. “Is there nothing I can say to convince you to stay?”

“No, but perhaps, just perhaps we may meet again, Ast. May the world itself protect this place.”

I thought I should say something, or perhaps stop her, but in the end, I simply watched her walk into the distance and disappear between the trees …

---
OOC: Id Matulcog is originally from Deathgate and canonically escaped that place before it's end, and cursed to walk the infinite multiverse. She frequently appears in forts that have touched the void below. I'll likely post the save tonight or tomorrow. Not sure how well this came out, but I've felt crummy all day today :(
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Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

Sethatos

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #429 on: November 16, 2017, 05:28:04 pm »

The cave dragons are the keepers of ancient history. Their scars tell stories of long dead forgotten beasts and great wars with the demons - to those that listen.

That’s fantastic NCommander, I’ll keep Id’s story in the full PDF take when I complete it
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NCommander

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #430 on: November 16, 2017, 05:51:44 pm »

The cave dragons are the keepers of ancient history. Their scars tell stories of long dead forgotten beasts and great wars with the demons - to those that listen.

That’s fantastic NCommander, I’ll keep Id’s story in the full PDF take when I complete it

I'm uploading the save right now, there are two versions of it. One with just the books, and one with a final gift from Id that I left in the library. In my test save, I accidently husked the military because I was letting it idle just to make sure it was stable. What followed what hilarity.

I highly recommend making backups with this. This is a fairly extensive modification to world.sav, and if I screwed up, the game might crash at a later point. I'll let my test copy to continue to run, but I figured you're itching to play with this now.
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Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
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Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

NCommander

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #431 on: November 16, 2017, 06:34:27 pm »

Personal Recollections of Ast Konosoth
Mayor of Gostzas
===


The following morning, a letter was found left by Id in the quarters she occupied. I've included it in full.

Spoiler: Id's Letter (click to show/hide)

===

Save w/ Gift: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13195

Feel free to PM me if you run into issues. I don't always check the forums, but the PM summons me by email.

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Quote from: TheFlame52
Fucking hell man, you aren't just getting the short end of the stick, you're being beaten with it.
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Is your plan really to flush water into hell, and have the CARP marines fight them without threat of flame or disease?  If so, you are awesome, and one of the greatest DF military visionaries I've seen yet ( not that I've seen that many, or any, for that matter )

Sethatos

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #432 on: November 16, 2017, 09:13:13 pm »

Awesome! Trying it now!
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Sethatos

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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #433 on: November 20, 2017, 12:44:20 pm »

So far so good. It's been over a year and still stable with the books.
They keep writing and dwarves are reading, although I had to use the lever trick in the library to get them to start writing.
Interestingly, I have a Naturalist, a Mathmetician, and an Astronomer, and all of their books it says the writing is vicious or cruel even when they are writing about long division.
I guess Hell is wearing on them.
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Re: Archcrystal: 374 years in a fortress [SPOILERS]
« Reply #434 on: November 20, 2017, 02:58:41 pm »

I guess Hell is wearing on them.

Interesting hypothesis: proximity to Hell makes creatures harsher. That's why elves are dandies, humans are softer than dwarves, dwarves are tough and honor-bound, and goblins are cruel and vicious.
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