Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic: I have Skyrim, Fallout 4, Mass Effect 3. Why do I keep playing Daggerfall?  (Read 4761 times)

Shadowlord

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

Having played all of Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim, I would rate Morrowind best, Skyrim second but not for the writers, oblivion third, and Daggerfall dead last. That said, Skyrim is the only one I've actually finished the main quest on.

I had longer post typed but my phone rebooted on me, so, summary:
Beth released Daggerfall for free for anniversary on their site, I got it from there, played it for a week or two until main quest broke permanently. Did not like various things in it but that was dealbreaker.
I assume they released the least buggy version.
Logged
<Dakkan> There are human laws, and then there are laws of physics. I don't bike in the city because of the second.
Dwarf Fortress Map Archive

Leyic

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

What does it matter that there's (four-digit-number) of dungeons and towns in Daggerfall if I won't visit most of them and they're mostly identical anyways?

Replayability. I could start a new game in Daggerfall right now and have a different experience from my previous playthroughs, which would keep me interested enough to get enjoyment out of the game two decades after I first played it. Whereas I could start a new game in Morrowind right now and more-or-less know everything that's going on in it due to having played through it a couple of times before. Mods aside, Morrowind has nothing new to offer and so is boring to me, despite whatever nostalgia I may have for it.

So trying to get back on topic responding to the OP's question, here's how I look at it: Content and gameplay are two separate things. With gameplay, either you like it or you don't. Content, however, is a consumable resource. You may like the content, but once you've experienced/consumed it, it is basically predictable and experiencing it again would be repetitive, so you become bored with it for a while. If a game has limited content, even though it's all unique, eventually you'll exhaust all of it and no longer enjoy it, however much you may like the game itself. But a game that can take some simple content and present it in a way that appears to produce a lot of variety and remains not completely predictable (i.e. random procedural generation), this can allay the feeling of repetitiveness enough to allow you to continue to enjoy the gameplay even as you are technically consuming the same content.

Or to use an analogy, you might enjoy, say, pizza, but you'd be bored with only eating pizza with the same set of toppings every day, so instead you vary the toppings to keep eating pizza enjoyable for longer.

Skyrim and Fallout 4 both have more unique content than Daggerfall, but it's exhausted or fully experienced after only a few playthroughs (presumably the same can be said of Mass Effect 3, but I've never played it), whereas Daggerfall has so much content you're unlikely to ever exhaust it all, even though most of that content is just repetitions of a small number of themes.

It's for this reason why I can put over 200 hours into Crypt of the NecroDancer despite it only having less than two hours of story content and four dungeon themes, but got bored of Hammerwatch with its comparable amount of content after only about ten hours over two-and-a-half-ish playthroughs, even though I enjoyed the gameplay in both. Hammerwatch, with its fixed content, became predictable and stale, whereas NecroDancer, with its random procedurally generated content, remains exciting.

tl;dr Copious amounts of similar content makes for better replayability than limited amounts of unique content.

Or to state it as more of an academic hypothesis: gamers such as myself and the OP desire content experiences that are new while being paired with familiar gameplay we enjoy. Thus the length of time in which we can enjoy a game is directly related to how long the game can keep providing new experiences, regardless of how much it reuses its content.

Of course, some gamers prefer complete repetition, i.e. grind. My argument doesn't apply to that subset of the culture.

Note that Daggerfall being old never substantially enters into my argument.

On a related tangent, I wonder what replayability Stardew Valley would have if it used more random content (i.e. crop prices and attributes, NPC likes and dislikes, etc.). This also makes me wonder how much of an impact shared experiences have in modern gaming owing to social media, but that would be another topic.

GiglameshDespair

  • Bay Watcher
  • Beware! Once I have posted, your thread is doomed!
    • View Profile

This is where we differ in thought.

Shallow RNG differences isn't really enough.

It's not so much as different toppings but the same toppings arranged in a different pattern; it doesn't matter is you get B instead of A when they're pretty much the same.

I'd prefer to play a well crafted, unique experience - even multiple times - than a few shallow alterations and everything seems samey. Just different strokes for different folks, I guess.
Logged
You fool. Don't you understand?
No one wishes to go on...

Antioch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

The real reason:

Skyrim and Fallout 4 are medicore games. They are so easy with all there quest markers and levelled enemies that it is basically impossible to fail. All content is extremely formulaic, basically every quest and dungeon is a copy of the other, meaning almost nothing is new or surprising past the first 10 hours of playing.

Daggerfall and Morrowind give you a world where thinking and exploration is rewarded (actually mostly Morrowind, Daggerfall also has that boring formulaic world generation), instead of blindly following a quest marker. Also they actually had interesting lore and storylines.


Skyrim and Fo4 do have a lot of mechanical improvements though, but in the case of free roaming RPG: Content > mechanics.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 06:45:13 am by Antioch »
Logged
You finish ripping the human corpse of Sigmund into pieces.
This raw flesh tastes delicious!

Antioch

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

But seriously, new games (especially RPG's) should really stop holding your hand so much.
Logged
You finish ripping the human corpse of Sigmund into pieces.
This raw flesh tastes delicious!

Harry Baldman

  • Bay Watcher
  • What do I care for your suffering?
    • View Profile

I played Daggerfall for the first time earlier this year, and found it to be a rather inspiring experience, in that it showed me that the core concept of the Elder Scrolls series isn't really unique, but actually something of a relict from the older days, tracing a line of descent to the 'old way' of making RPGs as compared to something like Bioware's work.

That's the amazing thing, I found - beneath the difference in dimensions, texture quality and amount of fluff, the ES series is ultimately still the same kind of game today. And Daggerfall just has this lovable earnestness about it, and I quite enjoyed blundering around the first dungeon finding crap to steal and classic enemies to kill, even if the controls were horrifyingly terrible. Didn't make it very far into the game before stopping, but I have to say it's definitely a game I look forward to playing again. It's the same feeling I got when playing Star Control II for the first time some years ago - older games do legitimately feel different and paradoxically fresh in their presentation compared to what I'm used to, and Daggerfall's one of those games I feel I could really get into if it had decent mouselook in it.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]