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Author Topic: Frontier Fortress [WIP]  (Read 7301 times)

AceSV

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2016, 10:03:14 am »

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In militaries, the saber and lance were used by cavalry units well into World War One, so it's conceivable that a group of settlers would be able to construct them.  I know that the saber was a symbol of American cavalry units in that era, but I don't know off hand how popular or effective the lance was.  In the same vein, if there were expecting to fight against mounted combatants, it would make sense for the settlers to produce something akin to a pike.  Pike and gun formations dominated renaissance warfare, but I don't know how long the pike lasted historically.

Well, the settlers are getting sabres now, and bolt-action rifles without ammo now fill the role of a spear or pike, since they've been given a bayonet for melee. In fact, they use the pike skill in melee according to the raws.

Actually, in real life, pikes and lances had the key advantage of being longer than rifle bayonets or cavalry sabers, but DF has no way to simulate this. 


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Unfortunately, they didn't use helmets in those days, which will decrease life expectancy in melee combat.

Cuirassiers actually did sometimes employ helmets (judging by good ol wikipedia, it probably varied from army to army or even soldier to soldier, based on what he could afford) and given the prevalence of things that like to chew on people's heads in DF, metal caps wouldn't be out of place. At minimum though, a leather helmet would be needed to train a militia - many are the soldiers I've lost to training accidents because a dude got thrown by the hand or arm and had his head get crushed on the floor without at least that much. And that was before pulping being factored in back in 34.11. Haven't had that issue recently because now I make sure my professionals have friggen helmets before they start training.

I meant that American soldiers didn't use helmets in that era. 

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And note, we aren't using the real world frontier. This is some sort of horrifying nebulous setting for DF's "future." One where dwarves have gone and accidentally'd themselves one time too many, where elves are extinct, and goblins probably all killed eachother in their metaphorical dick-waving contests.

One where analogues to Lee-Enfields and 1911s share the battlefield with meat hooks, harpoons, spears, and repeaters, with necromancers roaming the land, night trolls still nabbing people, insane cultists trying to build a theocratic empire, cannibalistic tree-humping natives trying to impose the ancient elven ways upon people who'd rather they fuck off back to legoland...

And foolishly brave settlers, trying to fight a dangerous and uncaring world, one island or region at a time.

Well again, I haven't played it myself yet (still trying to test FuFo badguy civs) the main thing that caught my attention was "wild west simulator".  If the author is not concerned with specifically American settlement, there are a lot more conflicts in the same era that could be used as inspiration.  The Crimean War and Napoleonic Wars in Europe.  The various Anglo-Afghan wars.  The Anglo-Zulu Wars in South Africa.  The Plantine War, Paraguay War and the settling of South America as well as many revolutions against Spain and the establishment of the modern South American nations.  The Australian Gold Rush.  The Boxer Rebellion in China basically saw a group of Chinese nationalists who believed in kung-fu super powers try to wrestle China away from the grip of foreign super powers (mainly Europe, plus Japan and the USA).  In Japan, this was the time of the Meiji Restoration, which saw the abolishment of the Tokugawa Shogunate and the samurai class and traditional Japanese culture became more westernized and modernized.  Barbary Pirates had been capturing Europeans for slavery for hundreds of years, causing the Barbary Wars against the USA and ended with the French invasion of Algiers.  The Scramble for Africa occurred toward from 1870 to 1914.  It was also during this time that the interiors of Asia and Africa were finally "discovered". 
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Cthulhu_Pakabol

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2016, 11:14:20 am »

I find all of those eras equally interesting, and hey, I very well may incorporate certain aspects of them at some point! I suppose when I said Wild West simulator I meant more that it changes the game to a vaguely "Western" archetypal setting, in the same way that vanilla is a vaguely fantastic or medieval setting based on archetypes. I'm also trying to add my own spin on things, just stuff that I think would make the setting more strange and interesting- this should be evident in the next update, which I'll probably release tonight or tomorrow morning. Hint- it's something to re-fill the mountain/hill civ niche.
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Splint

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2016, 10:56:41 am »

I'm genuinely intrigued as to who or what is taking that role. In the meantime, finally got some time to play the new release with the armament improvements. Here's to not dying horribly the first three year in.

EDIT: Can't seem to get cultists to spawn, or they're getting the shit knocked out of them in worldgen for some reason.

Cthulhu_Pakabol

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #18 on: March 22, 2016, 08:44:36 pm »

Hey, sorry I haven't checked in in a bit! That new race is coming along okay, though I've run into some problems giving them physical descriptors given their rather BARE BONES appearance. Hopefully I can work something out soon!
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Cthulhu_Pakabol

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2016, 12:59:44 am »

Oh, shit, I kind of forgot about this. I did add in that new race, so I'll be releasing the appropriate update now!

Say hello to Revenants, mountain and mound-dwelling skeletons with a rather imperialist lilt. They are shrouded in mystery, and quite formal in their societal structure. This fills out the niche of the dwarves, more or less!
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Cthulhu_Pakabol

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2016, 07:19:40 pm »

I'd also love suggestions for what to do with this mod next- I was considering adding in new creatures/mega beasts that fit the theme, and I'd love some suggestions for those. Any other ideas are also very much welcome!
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Splint

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2016, 04:55:56 am »

I have some minor flavor things, mainly relating to positions.

Militia Commander/Captain - Renaming them to Colonel and Sergeant, respectively (as Lieutenants are already part of the "regular" army for the settler civ.) To my knowledge, most colonial/western militias (at least from my barely-there knowledge of North America's Colonial and western time-frame,) were lead by a Colonel, and it's less of a mouthful.

Chief Doctor - Nitpick, but Town Doctor sounds more appropriate.

Law Enforcement - Removal of the Judge and Magistrate. They're redundant with the Sheriff and Marshall doing the same job with more appropriate titles.

Optional Hostile Civs plugin

Savages - Evil version of the Natives based essentially of the cannibal tribe stereotype, who share much in common with the cultists as they worship twisted, evil visages of the nature spirits. However, unlike The Cult who find many questionable/abhorrent acts to be personal matters between involved parties, Savages engage in slave-taking and cannibalism with a readiness that makes even some Cultists a little creeped out. They do have a single good trait though: Treasonous sorts and Oathbreakers are rewarded much the same as among more civilized people - the executioner's axe. As they need victims for their cannibalistic rituals and as slaves, they share a babysnatcher role with the Cult, as they're the only ones willing to put up with them. Active year-round.

Bandits and Outlaws - Civilized folk always have criminal elements, and some are better organized than others. These ne'er-do-wells set up shop in frontier regions away from the rule of law, preying on the isolated communities thereabouts. Evil version of settlers, who readily engage in theft, assault, and slavery. As they're more focused on taking your shit than taking your people, they are an overt (that is, non-skulking) [ITEM_THIEF] civ that will ideally attack early, and are active in Spring, Summer, and Fall (after all, civilized folk try not to wage war during the shitty part of the year, and they're still nominally civilized fellows.)

Creatures - based on a combination of folklore, mythology, and urban legends.

Wendigo - Non-megabeast. Best described as some bestial emaciated... Thing, this strange monster is found mainly in the forests, believed to be former natives who became greedy or consumed the flesh of men without sanction from the spirits (or protection from demonic ones.) Larger than a man, slightly faster, and mainly attacks by clawing and biting. While not immune to most status effects, their hunger for human flesh is so overpowering, that they are utterly fearless and go berserk at the sight of potential prey. Generally found in groups of 1-3.

Chupacabra - Semi-megabeast the size of a yak. Very strong, reasonably quick, bloodsucker. An unexplained horror that dwells in more arid places. Usually it will attack a settlement to feast on the blood of the livestock, and while its movements are largely clumsy and unrefined, it can be strangely difficult to hit. No natural skills besides dodging. Fearless and emotionless.

Thunderbird - Megabeast. Believed to be a relative of the Roc, this massive bird of prey is seen through the plains and forests of the new world. Roughy half the size of Roc and can be tamed, with effort.

Melonhead - Nonmegabeast - A more overtly hostile, surface-dwelling gremlin. The size of a large human child, Melonheads have strangely shaped heads and are known to tamper with machinery and occasionally attack people. Typically found in forested areas.

Wampus Cat - Semi-megabeast. A large and vicious cousin to the common cougar people. They are exceedingly rare sights, able to overpower a man and tear him asunder easily. Natural unarmed combat skills. Generally make their lairs in grasslands and forests.

Thoughts?

AceSV

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2016, 06:48:14 am »

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could God in fact send a kea to steal Excalibur and thereby usurp the throne of the Britons? 
Furry Fortress 3 The third saga unfurls.  Now with Ninja Frogs and Dogfish Pirates.

Cthulhu_Pakabol

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2016, 11:54:09 am »

I love all the feedback and new ideas. I'll get to work as soon as I'm back from my trip to Texas this weekend (where I might end up getting inspired, who knows?) Thanks!
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Cthulhu_Pakabol

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2016, 05:12:33 pm »

Here's an idea for a megabeast that I wanted to bounce off you guys: The Spirit of the Frontier.

There would only be one per world, and they would be extremely powerful and illusive. If it's possible, they would never come to attack a settlement, and would instead have to be hunted down in adventure mode. They'd essentially be the Frontier embodied- a ghostly gunslinger, extremely strong, resilient, and fast, able to conjure spectral guns from thin air or slice enemies apart with an extremely sharp cavalry sabre. Killing it would be a huge, HUGE a compliment, and would need to have a fitting reward- maybe becoming the Spirit yourself, able to use its abilities and weaponry.

Good idea? Bad idea? Eh idea?
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Splint

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2016, 05:24:09 pm »

I'd say an "eh" idea.

AceSV

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2016, 09:50:21 pm »

Here's an idea for a megabeast that I wanted to bounce off you guys: The Spirit of the Frontier.

There would only be one per world, and they would be extremely powerful and illusive. If it's possible, they would never come to attack a settlement, and would instead have to be hunted down in adventure mode. They'd essentially be the Frontier embodied- a ghostly gunslinger, extremely strong, resilient, and fast, able to conjure spectral guns from thin air or slice enemies apart with an extremely sharp cavalry sabre. Killing it would be a huge, HUGE a compliment, and would need to have a fitting reward- maybe becoming the Spirit yourself, able to use its abilities and weaponry.

Good idea? Bad idea? Eh idea?

I don't think most of this could be done with simple modding.  Might be interesting to make a relatively peaceful megabeast with valuable body parts, something like a unicorn or a cinnamon bird or whatever.  That's a classic frontier thing, go into the wilderness looking for some sort of game to kill.  I don't think you could stop them from wandering into a player fortress, but you don't need to make them hostile by default.  However, if the creature is not hostile, it might not defend itself when attacked. 

If you made the elusive creature a humanoid, i would go for something less dramatic than Spirit of the Very Notion of Frontier.  Something like The Old One, The First Man, Gun of the Wilderness, No-Name, Immortal Outlaw, Rambling Dead, etc. 
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could God in fact send a kea to steal Excalibur and thereby usurp the throne of the Britons? 
Furry Fortress 3 The third saga unfurls.  Now with Ninja Frogs and Dogfish Pirates.

Cormack

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2016, 02:33:41 pm »

I don't like the unnatural part of your mod. Isn't it better to crewte a realistic world of the 19th century as it was?
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Cthulhu_Pakabol

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2016, 04:17:52 pm »

I don't like the unnatural part of your mod. Isn't it better to crewte a realistic world of the 19th century as it was?

I respect your opinion and thank you for the feedback, but going into this mod I wasn't much looking to make a complete realism sort of thing- rather, I wanted to make a version of DF set in the "future" of its world- moving on from a fantasy medieval setting to fantasy colonial/frontier setting, thus keeping certain things that make DF, well, DF.
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Splint

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Re: Frontier Fortress [WIP]
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2016, 04:36:25 pm »

Could have certain "Forces of Nature" that aren't procedurally generated. Sort of like, every so often, settlements will be assaulted by normally-benevolent earth spirits, in response to the spread of technologically advanced people, and generally without the input of the natives. Additionally, an evil forest/jungle creature savages and cultists can use - Malevolent Ent.

Savages and Cults can sometimes entice demonic spirits to inhabit and war trees. While many wander away (and by wander, I mean kill a rather large number of said groups as they escape now that they have physical bodies,) generally taking up residence in evil forests and jungles. Those that fail to escape are pressed into the cult or tribe's service as building destroyers, and are exceedingly difficult to kill due to their tree-like nature. Natives, likewise, can use non-evil ones in the same capacity, and should settlers capture either kind, perhaps entice it to join them for a time as a protector, in exchange for food offerings (that is, they can be tamed if one is willing to put in the effort.)

Along with these, I propose another semi- or full megabeast, in relation to the first thing: Ancient Ents. Sometimes these titanic-sized Forces of Nature will attack and destroy civilized lands of anyone around them, likely in a bid to keep their numbers in check.

As an additional addendum, possibly rename animal trainers to "naturalists," to compensate with their interactions with ents, though I admit it's possible to get confused with the type of scholar.
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