Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?  (Read 2308 times)

Giant Dwarf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« on: March 25, 2016, 12:22:48 pm »

Hi

I know, that there is a population cap, which you can set to prevent Migrant Waves (after the first 2).
But I personally would rather want really small Migrant-Waves instead of none at all.
(Also I'd still like to have normal child production!)
Is there any way to do this?

In my current game, it was like this:
- 7 Starting Dwafs (one was eaten by an alligator, but anyways ...)
- 2 Migrants in Summer (good!)
- 9 Migrants in Autumn (too much already!)
- 25 Migrants in the next Spring (-.-)

I think 1-4 Migrants each Season would be ok.

Those huge waves kinda destroy my relation to the Dwarves.
I'd like to Micromanage them properly, give them names, know them a bit better. But with such big waves, it gets kind of annoying/impossible to do that.
Logged

Raven

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2016, 12:34:05 pm »

the last scripted wave in the first spring is always large, next waves will be shorter and based on your wealth
Logged
http://dwarffortressitalia.tumblr.com/

Italian blog about Dwarf Fortress

Il primo blog italiano su Dwarf Fortress

greycat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2016, 12:43:48 pm »

As far as I know, the only way to enforce small migrant waves is to micromanage the population cap every season.
Logged
Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2016, 01:57:46 pm »

As greycat said, increasing the pop cap to the current value +4 will probably give you 1-3 migrants (I increase the limit to current+10, and don't think I've ever gotten 10, but don't take that as an absolute truth). This limit will work on the hard coded waves as well, so you can restrict the size of both. The pop cap doesn't restrict births (that's taken care of by the strict pop cap).

I think Raven confuses things a little, as the two hard coded waves arrive in spring and autumn, so the spring one is the first "regular" one.

It can also be noted that the "hard coded" in the hard coded waves are just their appearance (unless blocked by pop cap or sieges). If you save scum you'll find that the size and composition of both of these two waves vary.
Logged

Niddhoger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2016, 03:04:54 pm »

They vary... but they still have small ranges. Iirc, their max is 9? You'll never see them hit the 40+ that have been reported in later waves. The main driver is fortress wealth as reported by the fall caravan. I can't remember if it's just the profits you trade them, or if they size up your fortress wealth and report that. 

What I am saying is, you can try limiting wealth production and trading if you don't want to constantly tweak the Raw files.  Consider always settling near humans and using them as your main partners while only trading bare essentuals/specific requests with the mountainhome. 
Logged

ragincajun

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2016, 03:35:41 pm »

As greycat said, increasing the pop cap to the current value +4 will probably give you 1-3 migrants (I increase the limit to current+10, and don't think I've ever gotten 10, but don't take that as an absolute truth). This limit will work on the hard coded waves as well, so you can restrict the size of both. The pop cap doesn't restrict births (that's taken care of by the strict pop cap).

I think Raven confuses things a little, as the two hard coded waves arrive in spring and autumn, so the spring one is the first "regular" one.

It can also be noted that the "hard coded" in the hard coded waves are just their appearance (unless blocked by pop cap or sieges). If you save scum you'll find that the size and composition of both of these two waves vary.
Do you change this in the raws?
If using LNP, if you save and then reload the game with a change in the pop cap does that work or is just the initial setup used?
Logged
No, they went to Hel, where they lead a bleak existence in cold and darkness. Valhalla is reserved for valiant warriors.

Giant Dwarf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2016, 03:43:06 pm »

Thanks for all the answers! :)
I guess I will just "micro manage" the Population Cap then.
Thinking about it, it's actually not that much work, if you consider, how much you have to do to actually keep your fortress running. ;D

Still a more elegant solution would be cool.
Maybe as a mod?

@Niddhoger
Can't be trading profits, as I didn't even trade anything to the first caravan.
Logged

Dunamisdeos

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dead Postocalypse lies dreaming.
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2016, 03:53:07 pm »

Kill the useless ones and build memorials.
Logged
FACT I: Post note art is best art.
FACT II: Dunamisdeos is a forum-certified wordsmith.
FACT III: "All life begins with Post-it notes and ends with Post-it notes. This is the truth! This is my belief!...At least for now."
FACT IV: SPEECHO THE TRUSTWORM IS YOUR FRIEND or BEHOLD: THE FRUIT ENGINE 3.0

Mostali

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2016, 07:09:42 pm »

As far as I know, the only way to enforce small migrant waves is to micromanage the population cap every season.

I do this from the start.  I usually go with a cap of 10 or 12 the first year and the summer/august waves have yet to exceed my cap.

I also manage visitor and child caps according to need.  I usually go in once per year (in winter) and change everything at once.  Yeah, it would be nice to have an in-game way to manage both dwarf and animal pops.
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2016, 01:48:03 am »

As greycat said, increasing the pop cap to the current value +4 will probably give you 1-3 migrants (I increase the limit to current+10, and don't think I've ever gotten 10, but don't take that as an absolute truth). This limit will work on the hard coded waves as well, so you can restrict the size of both. The pop cap doesn't restrict births (that's taken care of by the strict pop cap).

I think Raven confuses things a little, as the two hard coded waves arrive in spring and autumn, so the spring one is the first "regular" one.

It can also be noted that the "hard coded" in the hard coded waves are just their appearance (unless blocked by pop cap or sieges). If you save scum you'll find that the size and composition of both of these two waves vary.
Do you change this in the raws?
If using LNP, if you save and then reload the game with a change in the pop cap does that work or is just the initial setup used?
I use LNP, but you could just as well change the file LNP changes (LNP doesn't do magic, but it's quite convenient). Since I use LNP I haven't located the file, but it's not a RAW one, but rather one with regular parameters intended to be adjusted without the game being modded. I save, quit, change, and restart. DF reads the values at startup (I don't know if it reads them on "continue", but I doubt it, hence the quit).
Logged

Raven

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2016, 03:28:08 am »

As greycat said, increasing the pop cap to the current value +4 will probably give you 1-3 migrants (I increase the limit to current+10, and don't think I've ever gotten 10, but don't take that as an absolute truth). This limit will work on the hard coded waves as well, so you can restrict the size of both. The pop cap doesn't restrict births (that's taken care of by the strict pop cap).

I think Raven confuses things a little, as the two hard coded waves arrive in spring and autumn, so the spring one is the first "regular" one.

It can also be noted that the "hard coded" in the hard coded waves are just their appearance (unless blocked by pop cap or sieges). If you save scum you'll find that the size and composition of both of these two waves vary.
I've read in the past that the third (big one) wave is hardcoded too
Logged
http://dwarffortressitalia.tumblr.com/

Italian blog about Dwarf Fortress

Il primo blog italiano su Dwarf Fortress

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2016, 08:28:28 am »

It's definitely the case that dead civs receive two waves and no more, so your source(s) might either be incorrect or obsolete (I don't know much about the state prior to 0.40.X).
Logged

greycat

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2016, 07:33:04 am »

Do you change this in the raws?

It's in data/init/d_init.txt

Quote
If using LNP, if you save and then reload the game with a change in the pop cap does that work or is just the initial setup used?

The LNP launcher program just modifies files for you.  The files are read when Dwarf Fortress starts, so after changing the population caps, you have to save, exit and restart DF.
Logged
Hell, if nobody's suffocated because of it, it hardly counts as a bug! -- StLeibowitz

Loci

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Is there a way to just get less Migrants?
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2016, 11:48:41 am »

I played around with dfhack a bit and created this script:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To use it, copy the code and paste it into "hack/scripts/max-wave.lua" in your Dwarf Fortress directory. You can run it directly in the dfhack console ("max-wave 20 20") to set the population cap without reloading, or use it with repeat to create a rolling population cap (like "repeat -time 3 -timeUnits months -command [ max-wave 10 200 ]") to slow down immigration to whatever rate you desire. You can probably even set it up in an init file so it's entirely automatic.
Logged