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Author Topic: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?  (Read 73972 times)

Robot Parade Leader

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #180 on: November 13, 2018, 07:38:29 pm »

Things were going a little better. Still not drinking or anything, but wow is it tempting.
Still feel empty, but I'm not going to just fill it up with drinking or whatever.

Today was weird a bit though, some guy came gave a stupid speech about more efficiency at my work. We're very efficient, more than any of the other branch offices in the country.
I hope to God they forget about this guy, but he'd totally like to come back I mean of course he would. "Of course" we could just be twice as productive as we already are...
Dude has never done my job, but he can do it better and its easy.... It feels pretty insulting. I don't know what I did wrong, or anyone for that matter.
They paid this guy to come talk, but thank god only 12 people showed up and most of us were kinda forced into it. Guy gives me the creeps.

There's a union were I am now, and I have half a mind to bring that shit up. My God. WTF? I finally might have a good job after all the absolute shit I slogged through.
We have collective bargaining for productivity and work assignments I think, but I'm new and I don't want to make waves. Plus, he hasn't done anything yet.
Sadly, some of the people I work with don't recognize this guy for what he is and think it's a good idea to bitch where he can hear. Or they did today. O Jesus no.

I thought I just got crap stable for the first time in a long time and then this guy, because everybody's so damn smart, just doesn't seem to care.



Also totally thank you guys for being awesome and listening while providing a safe place.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 07:46:01 pm by Robot Parade Leader »
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Truean

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #181 on: November 14, 2018, 10:59:05 am »

Welcome. Glad substances are not in the picture....

This guy sounds potentially dangerous, con artist. Promise maker, check bouncer, figuratively.. Recommend evade and survive discretely, for now. Please don't let this be who I fear....

Before you report, remember stay low, if you must falter be wise.

Consider, how new you are, lack of recon on landscape, and any probation period you may be on....

May post more later. Til then be safe, never use work computer unless required, stay low.
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

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Imic

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #182 on: November 16, 2018, 06:06:37 pm »

I cultivate an aura of pure, unconditional hatred of everyone around me so I never need to be in a situation like that.
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Robot Parade Leader

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #183 on: November 17, 2018, 01:44:56 pm »

Um, I don't think I have that option imic.
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Truean

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #184 on: November 17, 2018, 03:24:14 pm »

So, posting update as mentioned before: Yeah.... It's that....

History and Overview:
This guy is an issue, specifically an "efficiency expert," pronounced "hatchet-man." Worked with these buffoons before. Haven't found a legal way to slap them, not easily anyhow.
My skills include being a turnaround expert; they try and fail to make me look bad. There have been a steady stream of these guys being hired and fired, because they do nothing.
Whereas I found ways to shore up failing enterprises, these morons come in and look for "cost savings" (things, and people, to cut). I rarely ever "cut" anything. I buttressed.
They are the cause of death spirals, failing to realize the "costly" department losing money, was holding up 5 profitable departments....
These logical fallacies roam from foolish executive to foolish executive; whereas I've been a senior executive a time or two and booted a few of these parasites.

Statement: Evade and survive suggestion still stands. Recon without appearing to do so. Resolve to build up a base.
This guy is a systemic threat you are not equipped to handle right now. You are new, do not know the system well/have recon, and I suspect you have not determined who your allies and foes are yet? .... Further, you have not determined who wields what power (formally AND informally), nor have you grasped the Union yet and its strength or lack thereof.
Furthermore, you have not determined who has what motivations, roadblocks to attaining that motivation, and desired means to get what they want.
Translation: Without appearing to do so, evade, survive, recon, refortify. Slowly build foundation.

Relax:
One thing these pissants all have in common is: they all work slow. (Note: that is unless he's a corporate raider, but he's not acquiring the business/its stock. This one is not).
If they tried to swoop in too quickly, then their long con medium con wouldn't work. This "doubles production" crap doesn't work. If it did, then I'd hire 2 of them, 3 of them, 4 ... and so forth until production approached infinity. It can't. The "double" production is a number I unapologeticly use the technical term, "bullshit, like most of the other stuff coming out of their mouths," for.

Countermeasure 1: Avoid proximity to him: physical or otherwise
Do not offer to give this prick any information. He can and will use it against you. He will question, mock, and replace any process, claiming the idea as his own and charging a mint for it. Any ideas he overhears that are good, he will steal.

Countermeasure 2: "I don't know about."
This innocent statement can be used as both deflection and stirring questions in the same breath. If you realize this guy is here, others will too. Inevitably, he will come up in conversation, and seeing as how you know of him, he clearly already has, somehow. This is your response. It deflects from you, gives an excuse not to help him, and raises questions; three purposes for the price of one breath.

Recon objective 1: Figure out if your union is effective, and how
Unions are one of the only hopes for your average working person to avoid the robot automation apocalypse from a widescale standpoint. Ask your grocery store cashier, while you can, before they fire her for teaching you how to use her replacement machines.... Sadly they are fading both in official power and institutional knowledge of the behind the scenes workings of getting stuff done, for real.

The old used to protect the young and show the ropes while doing it, in a competent Union model (read: rarer today). Find your mentor. Note that your mentor may have goals opposite to yours, so remember that the phrase, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is wrong. The correct version is "the enemy of my enemy is my ally." The difference is that you never completely trust an ally.  One of the lost tactics was protecting vulnerable employees, who were vulnerable merely because they were new/on probation (YOU). An older member with seniority and tenure would complain instead of the newer one, when management tried to abuse the newbies. You have a union. Who are its OFFICIAL senior members? Who are those in the union without position but with power: who do people listen to despite not holding a position. What have they accomplished? These are harder questions we can talk about in PM or something.

Background Note:
I was never in a union. I was often on the management's team. That stated, I wasn't a jerk about things and actually used logic and pragmatism to get things done. Sometimes I agreed with the union and worked with them. Other times I fought and won. O the war stories I couldn't tell.... Sometimes I fought them. Just, the morons who worked in healthcare but wanted to use a patient's photo on their union flier advertising a strike "informational picket" because the person was vulnerable and they wanted to be seen as "protectors," alone raised my red flags (It's called HIPAA, and for the love of God, you better have a release signed at minimum and armor to deflect the management's rage resulting from using a patient like that, never-mind the health department's potential citation for exploitation). Other times I helped them. It was well within reason to get a $1/hour raise for more difficult, riskier work. The smart ones KNEW I wouldn't screw them, even when fighting them, because I was fair. They HATED a lot of the others, but they at minimum were OK with me, and a lot of them liked me. Oversimplified, I could have, but never did roast anyone. The only exception was when somebody got wayyyy too far out there and was sinking the ship we were all sailing on. Otherwise, nobody got fried from me, and quite the opposite.

I still recommend laying low, while discretely surveying the landscape. My old advice and tactics still apply. You are not ready to do anything about this. You don't have the intel., comms, recon, equipment, money, connections, or frankly anything to deal with this. Stay low, focus on being productive and out of the way: nose to the grindstone, not stepping on anyone's toes. For now, becuase you are so new, come in a bit early, leave a bit late. Do not be the problem your manager has to focus on. "I just ... I don't know what being a manager is about, but I'm sure you're busy with lots of problems and I just don't want to be one. You probably have enough to worry about, you know?" This will get the attention off you, and place you more towards the "I don't have to worry about this one," slot in your manager's consideration. Out of sight; out of mind; not a problem for manager = safer. They can't hate you for that. Be safe. Will keep in touch. Thank you for inclusion in this matter.

Final thought in this post:

You are making progress. It's all about forward motion and you are making that. No substance abuse, dealing with things better, better job, old boss is less and less likely to hurt you as time goes on.... These are all improvements. It's true that you aren't out of the woods yet, but you are closer to the forest's edge. Even then, there may still be problems, but you will be better equipped to deal with them.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2018, 03:43:21 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

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Maximum Spin

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #185 on: November 18, 2018, 01:07:32 am »

Ask your grocery store cashier, while you can, before they fire her for teaching you how to use her replacement machines....
What is pictured is not really what is described here. The actual order of events was more like, companies WANTED to fire all the cashiers, but it turns out people are too stupid to use the self-checkout machines without help. The employee pictured isn't actually a cashier but an attendant whose job is to help people use the machines. That job won't go away as long as there are stupid people who can't use self-checkout machines.


As for the post in general I also want to offer an alternative point of view:
The world isn't actually that scary. Everything is going to be fine. You're going to be fine.
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Robot Parade Leader

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #186 on: November 18, 2018, 05:07:05 pm »

Ask your grocery store cashier, while you can, before they fire her for teaching you how to use her replacement machines....
What is pictured is not really what is described here. The actual order of events was more like, companies WANTED to fire all the cashiers, but it turns out people are too stupid to use the self-checkout machines without help. The employee pictured isn't actually a cashier but an attendant whose job is to help people use the machines. That job won't go away as long as there are stupid people who can't use self-checkout machines.

They used to have a whole row of people with jobs. Now they just have 1 where there were 12.
So even if people don't get used to doing everything on their phones and machines and stuff (they're gonna) and that one person has a job, there are 11 who are screwed?
I'm pretty sure there are a LOT less people getting paid to work the checkout line than there used to be. WTF are you talking about? I don't think you get it.
12 jobs -11 jobs = 1 job. Not good. I always try to go to the regular old cashier in line, because I know that person probably can't do anything else for work.

As for the post in general I also want to offer an alternative point of view:
The world isn't actually that scary. Everything is going to be fine. You're going to be fine.

What am I supposed to do with this? Like, how is this supposed to help me? At all?

I'm glad you're doing well in this world. I really am. The rest of us might not be though.
We have problems and need help. So far T. and Tiruin are some of the only people who helped me, a lot actually. 

I kinda feel like you're telling me to pipe down. My concerns don't matter. I should hush. Didn 't want to bother you.

Do you feel like you're better than me? You probably are. It's nice to be reminded of that while asking for help.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 05:11:30 pm by Robot Parade Leader »
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #187 on: November 18, 2018, 05:35:32 pm »

What am I supposed to do with this? Like, how is this supposed to help me? At all?
It helps if you let it.
Look at it this way. In a few decades you'll be dead and nothing will have changed. What happens between then and now is up to you. There's no point suffering during that time. Sit, breathe, remember everything is going to be fine.

The alternative is some batshit ascientific nonsense about dimensions with no mathematical rigour or meaning, which is basically the same as pyramids and crystals and Chopra, ie, a way to rationalise your suffering instead of stopping it.
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Truean

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #188 on: November 18, 2018, 06:30:52 pm »

What am I supposed to do with this? Like, how is this supposed to help me? At all?
It helps if you let it.
Look at it this way. In a few decades you'll be dead and nothing will have changed. What happens between then and now is up to you. There's no point suffering during that time. Sit, breathe, remember everything is going to be fine.

The alternative is some batshit ascientific nonsense about dimensions with no mathematical rigour or meaning, which is basically the same as pyramids and crystals and Chopra, ie, a way to rationalise your suffering instead of stopping it.

O wow..... Here I was typing up a peacemaker post, about misunderstandings, and that I'm sure he wouldn't have said that to one of the people they're talking about replacing with machines..... I mean especially when they're asking for help.... We just got him out of a bad job.... But wow, "Look at it this way. In a few decades you'll be dead and nothing will have changed."..... Wow, that ... has to be the least hopeful thing I've heard in a while, and I... I'm saying that .... looking over my jade colored glasses rims.... Jesus. I've been cold as hell before but ... wow. I'm trying to be better.

Dude, are you ok man?

What ... are ... you doing?

Different people are in different positions, and a lot of them can't just "let it." Life isn't that easy, especially not for a lot of people.... There's nothing the retail clerk can do when the customer goes ballistic on them for no good reason, because that job pays the rent and food. People in that spot have no choice. If you read through this thread, OP has given examples like that....

This guy has some issues, is trying to avoid drinking, drugs, an unethical boss who got fired for being unethical, and stuff.... We worked through unethical boss, got him another job, stopped the drinking, and we're getting him stable. Have been, for a couple years now....

Say whatever you want. Two words, "It worked." Results. They happened, and keep happening.

This isn't the first time I'm helping someone here.... You're not trying to help him, not with statements like that.

So ask yourself within your own mind again what you are doing...? How do you expect anyone to respond to statements like you made?

You are ad homming the OP, when they've done nothing to you. He has never done anything but ask for help we could give. Please, tell me this is clicking? Jesus, a little empathy, and compassion?
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 06:33:41 pm by Truean »
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Maximum Spin

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #189 on: November 18, 2018, 07:55:06 pm »

Say whatever you want. Two words, "It worked." Results. They happened, and keep happening.
Then why is there still, clearly, a person still suffering?

The ego produces the illusion of results because it fears change; there is a part of every person that would rather descend into fear and bitterness than become a different (ie better) person, and that part will convince you that you are doing better because you've gotten used to the pain.

There is a way to simply... not have the pain.
Quote
You are ad homming the OP, when they've done nothing to you. He has never done anything but ask for help we could give. Please, tell me this is clicking? Jesus, a little empathy, and compassion?
I don't think you understand what empathy and compassion are. You definitely don't understand what an ad hominem is.
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Robot Parade Leader

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #190 on: November 18, 2018, 08:42:26 pm »

Say whatever you want. Two words, "It worked." Results. They happened, and keep happening.
Then why is there still, clearly, a person still suffering?

The ego produces the illusion of results because it fears change; there is a part of every person that would rather descend into fear and bitterness than become a different (ie better) person, and that part will convince you that you are doing better because you've gotten used to the pain.

There is a way to simply... not have the pain.
Quote
You are ad homming the OP, when they've done nothing to you. He has never done anything but ask for help we could give. Please, tell me this is clicking? Jesus, a little empathy, and compassion?
I don't think you understand what empathy and compassion are. You definitely don't understand what an ad hominem is.

Before I had a boss framing me for something I didn't do. She's fired and I have a new job I'm not as scared of.
Before I drank too much. Now I don't.
I was in a bad place and now I'm not.
It's not perfect but it's improvement.

T helped me through some stuff I was so worried about I couldn't even sleep.

You made fun of me, told me nothing I would do would matter, and then told me this:

There is a way to simply... not have the pain.

But you're just gonna call everybody but you weak and stupid instead of saying it what it is?

You're wrong. You're not here to help. You're derailing my thread.

Get out now. You're either cruel or trolling.

Post again and I'm pressing report.
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Truean

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #191 on: November 18, 2018, 08:49:01 pm »

Dude. Just ignore him. Don't feed the troll. If you do, then he wins.

Don't engage. Just don't. Toady's got enough stuff on his plate. Just don't read the stuff he posts to make you upset. You're doing better. Remember?

Better job, better living situation, no drinking. You're doing better and making progress over two years ago.

It's all about forward motion. Improving. It'll keep slowly gettingv better. Email me. Don't engage like this.
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The kinda human wreckage that you love

Current Spare Time Fiction Project: (C) 2010 http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63660.0
Disclaimer: I never take cases online for ethical reasons. If you require an attorney; you need to find one licensed to practice in your jurisdiction. Never take anything online as legal advice, because each case is different and one size does not fit all. Wants nothing at all to do with law.

Please don't quote me.

Maximum Spin

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #192 on: November 18, 2018, 08:51:13 pm »

I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not making fun of you, or trolling, and I'm certainly not calling anyone weak or stupid. All of that is coming from you. I just want you to be happy, in the world as it is. I want everyone to be happy.

I accept your rejection, I forgive you, and I wish you luck.
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Tiruin

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #193 on: November 20, 2018, 05:57:45 am »

Maxi, please don't pathologize folks and push help based on one aspect you can see to their situation (it's what it seems to be). You have the intent to help, it should never be expressed in what SHOULD be done; turn it into suggestions especially if you are aware that ideas may not be wholistic or fitting to the person's context or experiences, and add detail to it on why you think this works out. You can take that intent to help, and study or increase your knowledge on these topics in general because not everything is the ego, and not everything should be within that kind of model in representing a person's psyche and internal thinking. Just because the concept of the ego has become so widespread does not mean it is the sole basis on how things work (Psychoanalysis has gone a long way since Freud poked the unconscious >_>). Also there's a lot more recent studies and ideas regarding the ego rather than an affixed reactive psychological manifestation; one perspective to note is that there is no "fear" of change, there is newness of experience, and what is similarly attached to those experiences may result in reluctance to approach them. Each and every word and adjective has its own connotations, and thrusting intent to help by understanding how these behaviors network and interlock can help you and whoever you wish to help, a ton more.

And that includes the language you use to put degrees of intensity to what you're talking about. The last posts there are unhelpful in content other than the one above this; they're untactful. Please do not attack other people by stating what they do or do not understand and instead just clarify your position because it will make it a lot more difficult for your future workload by trying to interpret another's ideas without communicating with them (and in turn having a clear idea yourself, because it'll be demeaning). The benefit of things in an open forum is you have all the time in the world to hit that post button, and all the time afterwards to Modify the content; everything else is self-defined towards what was done when it's your work and action in the end.

It will help to stop seeing things as if there's one (or a few) clear cut ways to understand others' suffering, because a basic of a person's concern is avoiding stress. When they have this locus of control with them, it'll help--but it won't fix "suffering" because the world is a lot larger in scale, especially when people (and their lived experiences or timelines of their life) are connected to events and situations on "why people are affected". It's never the case that people think the world is scary, but whatever makes this an idea is with experiences they themselves have personally been through. Judging a person otherwise because of the presence of resistance, assumed or otherwise, to what is written will cause you to lose track in your own reasoning towards the situation. That's the basic understanding of when people ask compassion or empathy; to fit in their agency to the situation. I slotted in the context of agency here for anyone curious.

Spoiler: Morestuff (click to show/hide)

Anyway before everything when those posts happened, I am curious (needn't be answered here) towards the connections you have RPL. As in, the people around you including awareness of what you have there to connect to other people in your area. Having a social network (or connection to professionals) can help a lot. And apologizes if I forgot details in the meantime (PMs can answer anything that you're uncomfortable with in public if you're interested)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2018, 06:08:49 am by Tiruin »
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Robot Parade Leader

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Re: Problems with stress and being upset from dealing with people. How do you?
« Reply #194 on: February 14, 2019, 12:04:57 pm »

So I know Truean's gone, but Tiruin is still around, so at least there's that.

I am getting good feedback, in writting from people at work in power. My supervisor likes me and leaves me alone most of the time. He has said my work is good and appreciates the dedication. There are some people who are weirdly not cool with me. I mostly keep to myself and don't cause trouble. Supervisors seem to like me/ what I do. I get compliments. This is just about a complete 180 From my last job.

I still do not trust people, but I am polite and a bit helpful at times. Far away but I guess ok. I pretty much just threw myself into the work and try to make the people I think are calling shots happy.

Doesn't feel nearly as bad as before, but that left me with some stress. I don't know.

I do have some aquiantances at work. I have some friends I haven't seen much or at all in years. Family is weird and fighty. So there's that.

Thoughts (Hopefully nicer ones)
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