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Author Topic: (SG) The Redleaf Epic (Formerly Widow: A Duchess Scorned)  (Read 62396 times)

Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #105 on: April 05, 2016, 04:08:14 pm »

Let's try to be friendly, but determined in no killing Redding. We can still sign the treaty, with the clause that the Hortons have to agree, and delay everything as much as we want if we desire so.


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IronyOwl

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #106 on: April 05, 2016, 05:34:51 pm »

I'd rather craft something everyone sort of wants than agree to the thing everyone else wants but then delay it indefinitely. Declaring Joy Duchess details pending sounds like a good idea, though.
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Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #107 on: April 05, 2016, 05:44:15 pm »

But... everybody sort of wants this, right? Charlie wants even more influence over Joy, but she can just handle what she has right now.

And the Hortons would basically have veto power if we say that their agreement is pending.

So, everybody wins, right?

IronyOwl

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #108 on: April 05, 2016, 05:56:14 pm »

We're not sure how comfortable we are with Redding becoming Duke if we die. Nobody but Mayor wants Mayor County to absorb Other County. We don't want to unconditionally declare everyone who's not with us against us, I don't think. "Here's a treaty, if you don't like it don't sign it" is probably not what the Hortons want, but we wouldn't know because nobody asked them.

I don't think "everybody wins" so much as "the Rothwells and maybe Redding wins big, unless we delay inevitably in which case nobody loses by virtue of nothing happening, except possibly whoever everyone thinks it holding up getting their sweet loot."
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #109 on: April 05, 2016, 06:06:47 pm »

Oh, I forgot about the "All that aren't with us right now are enemies" clause. Yes, we may want to change that. And, unfortunately, if that happens, some people will lose their promised counties, and everybody will complain about that.

Damn, politics are difficult.

So, any suggestions? It seems that not declaring everybody our enemy will decrease our degree of "alliance" with these guys.

VoidSlayer

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #110 on: April 05, 2016, 06:14:36 pm »

Give everyone 30-90 days to respond or be considered traitors after we declare Joy to be the Duchess in regency.

That should give us enough time to use what influence we have over the other counts.

We can offset it by taking the mayor's extra county and the one promised to our family and turning them into "to be dispensed to loyal counts who do not otherwise receive something" so that if their 'preferred' county is not included, they at least get something.

Also I was not saying we should kill Redding, just that it's not the worst idea.  Later though, maybe.

Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #111 on: April 05, 2016, 06:26:20 pm »

Give everyone 30-90 days to respond or be considered traitors after we declare Joy to be the Duchess in regency.

That should give us enough time to use what influence we have over the other counts.

We can offset it by taking the mayor's extra county and the one promised to our family and turning them into "to be dispensed to loyal counts who do not otherwise receive something" so that if their 'preferred' county is not included, they at least get something.

Also I was not saying we should kill Redding, just that it's not the worst idea.  Later though, maybe.

I like it. Give them 90 days just like with the Strongcurrents. The extra county's fate (King's Road it is called) could be decided by a democratic vote of some sort, from the new coalition.

On the other hand, Count Kinkaid is already attacking Silver county, so we have a problem with that. Even worse, King's road County is ruled by his wife. So, those two counties are already against us, unless we break with the Kinkaids. I think that the Marlowe are going to hate us and we can't do anything to stop that right now. That leaves us with two possible allies in the Strongcurrents and maybe the Gulfs. And we have a contact with the Gulfs (who is not important, but exists).

I also so think that killing Redding right now is not the best idea. Later, after Joy has given birth, it would be another story. It depends if we can just make him into a part of our family. But, considering how willing he is to murder his own current family for power, I doubt about it.

By the way, we should bless Joy with some kind of blessing that makes her safer on the battleground.

3man75

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #112 on: April 05, 2016, 06:37:29 pm »

This is going to be a matrilineal marriage though right? Where Joy's children are of our household?

If yes and if Charlie promises to not kill redding then we can agree. Tell her that we are simply to attatched to let redding die for..what reason again?
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Tomcost

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #113 on: April 05, 2016, 06:50:39 pm »

This is going to be a matrilineal marriage though right? Where Joy's children are of our household?

If yes and if Charlie promises to not kill redding then we can agree. Tell her that we are simply to attatched to let redding die for..what reason again?

Because our daughter likes him, and he will prevent her from doing suicidal things in battle.

IronyOwl

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #114 on: April 05, 2016, 06:55:00 pm »

Hm... come to think of it, this is a declaration to the rest of the world too, not just our allies and tangentially our targets. Like, it occurred to me that "Joy is Duchess, kind of" and "this dude's a traitor, his land and titles are forfeit" were declarations, but I kind of forgot everybody's going to be reading this to find out where we stand.

So to that end... hrm. We might want to declare a generalized plan of action modified by Joy's discretion at the time, so that other counties can calculate the exact political costs of joining us, opposing us, or doing one until they decide they want to do the other. For example, if we say that any county (I believe the document mentioned two) joins us immediately, they're safe; if they remain neutral or hostile until later, they may make reparations with a political marriage into a loyalist house; if they oppose us in battle but join or stop opposing us after a few poor engagements, they are to be stripped of position and their heir put in charge in a political marriage with a loyalist house; if they fight to the last their family is stripped of title and a loyalist house takes over.

The trick there, of course, would be to figure out what we want those claims to do and to who. Kinkaid and Rothwell obviously want us to grab everybody's land and give it to them, but I'm not sure how well it'd motivate them. Charlie has told us she wants to get everything back our husband took from her and maybe then some, but she might be willing to settle if the winds are against her and she's probably not going to fight any harder/better with more loot. Rothwell is basically just a Kinkaid patsy; he can't do much on his own.

Horton... Wife is our friend, General just wants to murder. So, uh. Not sure we can "motivate" either of them beyond promising COLD JUSTICE for more people Horton's declared traitors.

Everyone else... we want them to join us now rather than later, but we don't want to lock them out of joining us later. Especially before they've seen that we're a feasible force, they're not surrounded by enemies with our armies too far away to help, etc. So we'd want something that gets the maximum number of people going "wow, I should join the Duchess" at each stage where they're more useful to us as allies than as prizes for our allies.

So, uh... Silver County is former Kinkaid, which means Mayor and Charlie both want it; Mayor isn't actually useful to us beyond Charlie's power, but she might want/be fine with him ruling it anyway. Its current ruler was put there by our husband, though, so we might be able to get that and King's Road (both Marlowes) just by asking/demanding fealty from them. On the other hand, our husband's schemes were greatly slowed when the ruler of Silver County imposed ludicrous taxes on trade through there with the dwarves, so they might not be terribly loyal and/or competent. Charlie wouldn't like that at all either; we could potentially buy her off with a political marriage, but she's not going to want to wait for control without a very good reason.

Every other county is a prize, but not "mandatory" for any particular reason.


Give everyone 30-90 days to respond or be considered traitors after we declare Joy to be the Duchess in regency.

That should give us enough time to use what influence we have over the other counts.

We can offset it by taking the mayor's extra county and the one promised to our family and turning them into "to be dispensed to loyal counts who do not otherwise receive something" so that if their 'preferred' county is not included, they at least get something.

Also I was not saying we should kill Redding, just that it's not the worst idea.  Later though, maybe.

I like it. Give them 90 days just like with the Strongcurrents. The extra county's fate (King's Road it is called) could be decided by a democratic vote of some sort, from the new coalition.

On the other hand, Count Kinkaid is already attacking Silver county, so we have a problem with that. Even worse, King's road County is ruled by his wife. So, those two counties are already against us, unless we break with the Kinkaids. I think that the Marlowe are going to hate us and we can't do anything to stop that right now. That leaves us with two possible allies in the Strongcurrents and maybe the Gulfs. And we have a contact with the Gulfs (who is not important, but exists).

I also so think that killing Redding right now is not the best idea. Later, after Joy has given birth, it would be another story. It depends if we can just make him into a part of our family. But, considering how willing he is to murder his own current family for power, I doubt about it.

By the way, we should bless Joy with some kind of blessing that makes her safer on the battleground.
Not a fan of the 90 days rule. Gives them a while to stall, but still locks them in one way or another at the end.

It's true that Silver County is a problem because Charlie's already attacking it, which doesn't give them any time to react to our demands for fealty. We might need to let her have it as her expected fee for supporting us, though what exactly happens to the people currently in charge could do with some refinement. Maybe deliver the demand as Charlie's getting into position, and then if they agree immediately we call off the attack and promise Charlie something else?

We might want to figure out what Redding's angle was for letting the Port County clause in, but I'm guessing he figured that he could convince his father to support his son the Duke within 90 days.


This is going to be a matrilineal marriage though right? Where Joy's children are of our household?
We should check on this.

If yes and if Charlie promises to not kill redding then we can agree. Tell her that we are simply to attatched to let redding die for..what reason again?
Wh- he's potentially useful, stabbing everyone who gets in your way tends to go poorly sooner or later, and our daughter and heir to the Duchy loves him!
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

VoidSlayer

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #115 on: April 05, 2016, 07:11:31 pm »

How about confiscation of lands is dependent on the desire of the duchess (or her regent).  The default can be confiscation (because they are traitors right now) and if it is confiscated it goes to the correct party.

But we can also negotiate for their surrender to include keeping some or all their lands, if it would be advantageous.

This gives us power in the long term, through it does not bind our allies as strongly.  We can always declare later that so and so's lands are forfit if we truly believe they will never join us.

This way Charlie will be pressed to take down Silver County quickly, to not give the current ruler a chance to negotiate with us.  And it allows us to negotiate with Strongcurrent for wealth and swords rather then making him automatically join under his terms.  After all, we have his heir as hostage.

StrawBarrel

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #116 on: April 05, 2016, 07:35:23 pm »

I don't think Redding is the heir.
Your children are introduced oldest to youngest - First your son-in-law Redding and your daughter Joy. Redding and Gruel are already acquainted, the two having fought together for your husband, but it is clear to you that this is the first time in a while that they have been together, as Gruel asks some questions that most would know the answer to such as 'what happened to your first wife?' (died of Riverpox the same week Joy's betrothed backed out of the arrangement to marry the King's niece) 'who cut off the fingers on your right hand' (goblins on the Western front) and 'did you ever get named heir to your County?' (if I did I wouldn't be living with my mother-in-law).
Speculating, I think Redding and Ernie might negative relation or at least a distant one.
This is going to be a matrilineal marriage though right? Where Joy's children are of our household?
We should check on this.
Given Joy's surname is Strongcurrent and the wording in previous updates, it seems to me that it is a patrilineal marriage.
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Weirdsound

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #117 on: April 06, 2016, 04:39:41 am »

2334th Year of Man, 4th Month, 18th Day:

"Charlie... I agree that we are on the same side," you sigh, "but I'm not going to have Redding killed... at this point in time. He has been instrumental in keeping Joy off the battlefield, which I think we can both agree is a good thing."

The countess considers your words for a few seconds, before offering a defeated nod of agreement. "Alright. That is fair enough. We can't have her trying to fight while this far along. What does she have, like two months left?"

"Pretty much," you admit, "there is a chance the kid could end up sharing my birthday."

"Good. You can use that time to try and tame Redding then. If you can bend him to your will before he outlives his usefulness, we might not even have to revisit this conversation later." Charlie sprawls herself out across your sofa, before remembering the other issue as an afterthought. "And the treaty then?"

You shake your head. "I know I'm in no position to stop you from taking Silver County if you can get it, but beyond that, I don't want to close the door on any of the other counts changing sides for us. I say we name Joy heir, pending future negotiations, and go about our business for now."

Charlie chuckles, "That is kind of a dumb reason when you consider our other ally wants all the other counts dead and might not be willing to let them switch sides, but I'll admit I'm not fully satisfied with the treaty either, and I'll gladly use 'lets wait for the Hortons' as an excuse to say no to their document without offending Gregory or Redding. Tomorrow, we can present Joy to my men and the town as their new Duchess."

"Wonderful, so we have a plan then?"

The Countess nods, and reaches into her robe to produce a cheap chain with two brass lockets, each containing a lock of hair. "Indeed. I think you realize you have little choice but to work with me, so now I can confess that I need your help as well. This is hair from Gregory's two younger children who are staying at my place. My scholar on Dark Magic tells me that this is all you need to hold leverage over him. I have reason to believe he will need to be babysat extra closely until this situation blows over, and I suspect I'll be far too busy on the front lines to do it myself."

You cringe, why would she need your help with Gregory after just telling you she could control him? "And why does he need extra babysitting, might I ask?"

Charlie frowns, "because I intercepted a message from his nephew Jordan. The boy is in Tradewind Duchy rounding up mercenaries at the ports to fight on behalf of the prince. He hates your family for starting the war that killed his family, Glen's family for killing his family, and my family for not demanding justice for his family. He wants us all dead Maeris, and he wants Gregory to act as his agent. I am fairly confident I have intercepted all of Jordan's messages, and that Gregory doesn't even know his cousin is getting involved on the other side, but I just want to keep the mayor on an extra short leash just to be safe."

You shrug, sounds about right. Gregory's brother would send death threats or challenges to duel to your husband a few times a year. It would make sense his son felt the same way. "I see. Do you have any more news. I have not heard much since it all went down."

Charlie sighs. "Honestly, things are looking a bit scary. Between us, the Orcs, and those forces put in place to keep my family in check, the Southern Counties have an advantage in available manpower for now, but the numbers are close enough that neither side should feel comfortable committing to the offense. The scales will tip slightly more in our favor when we bring back the Mighty Clans, but that is where the good news ends. I just found out that Rubricon has his cousin Prince Denzel, who is far more popular and 6th in line to the throne, serving as his squire. This significantly raises the odds of the crown actively backing our enemy."

She pauses for a second, and gives you a hardened look. "The short version is, we need to control either Port or Silver County before the Crown starts providing serious support to the prince, that way we can use the Port or the Winding Path to try and bring in more resources of our own. If we can't do that, we are fucked. But you needn't worry. Your husband helped Phineas and I work all the defeat out of our systems. The Duchy will be ours, mark my words."

As Charlie rises from her seat, and gives you a pat on the shoulder, you can't help but think that you know of a third means of possibly supplying the resistance should the crown get involved, but that it involves Goblins and high treason.

Back downstairs, you and Charlie announce that while you agree on naming Joy heir, that no formal document should be signed without the presence of the Hortons. Those in attendance are encouraged to spread the word, and after everybody finishes their lunch, the meeting is concluded without incident.

Charlie drags the mayor away for a private discussion, and he returns to you alone. There is a look of utter fear now in Gregory's eyes as he reguards you, but he does a pretty good job of masking the terror in his voice. "So, my Duchess, shall I arrange for the potion cartel to meet you at the guardhouse?"

Duchess Maeris Bonedust Riverland:
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 07:18:41 am by Weirdsound »
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IronyOwl

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #118 on: April 06, 2016, 05:13:21 am »

[Smugly] "Yes, I believe you should."

So, how we doing this? Reformed Potioner's Guild to ingratiate ourselves to the city and supply possible mercs with affordable potions, or business as usual only now we're the ones receiving disgusting profits for little to no effort?

I say guild, but then I've probably been opposed to every morally questionable yet materially profitable action so far.


When that's done, we should look into getting a messenger to Count Ernie. Charlie's probably got Silver County in the bag, if we could negotiate Port County onto our side without bloodshed we'd be set. Or at least double not-fucked, which is... kind of somewhat the same thing.

Only trouble is how to do that. Messenger service can be a dangerous job in war, and if the good Count has to maintain appearances our courier might not make it back. Probably safer to hire a merc for it rather than risk someone we know... but then they'd be unreliable, which isn't great for covert offers of treason.

A custom undead might be perfect for the infiltration part, but not so great at the "Hello here for a message" bit. Plus we'd need the corpse(s), which I'm sure are in short supply! Should probably ask Redding about the best way to get into contact, and his opinion on our chances of success/Ernie's demands/Port County's assets.


How about confiscation of lands is dependent on the desire of the duchess (or her regent).  The default can be confiscation (because they are traitors right now) and if it is confiscated it goes to the correct party.

But we can also negotiate for their surrender to include keeping some or all their lands, if it would be advantageous.

This gives us power in the long term, through it does not bind our allies as strongly.  We can always declare later that so and so's lands are forfit if we truly believe they will never join us.
Maybe, but I'm not fond of the vagueness. They won't know in the planning phases how we'd react, and prolonged negotiating is hard when you're talking with the enemy.

This way Charlie will be pressed to take down Silver County quickly, to not give the current ruler a chance to negotiate with us.  And it allows us to negotiate with Strongcurrent for wealth and swords rather then making him automatically join under his terms.  After all, we have his heir as hostage.
But... that's a bad thing. We want Silver County to join us instead of being overwhelmed and possibly butchered by the Kinkaids.

Redding's not the heir, but he's now officially the Duke or Duke Consort or in good with the Duchess or however that works. Well, the rebel Duchess who only comes to power if she wins, but that's a good argument for winning. The point is that Count Ernie now has incentive to join us based on family interest, and not of the "or else we stab him" variety.

We should get into contact with him very soon.

This is going to be a matrilineal marriage though right? Where Joy's children are of our household?
We should check on this.
Given Joy's surname is Strongcurrent and the wording in previous updates, it seems to me that it is a patrilineal marriage.
Ah, good point. Though it's possible her being the Duchess would make that different.
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Quote from: Radio Controlled (Discord)
A hand, a hand, my kingdom for a hot hand!
The kitchenette mold free, you move on to the pantry. it's nasty in there. The bacon is grazing on the lettuce. The ham is having an illicit affair with the prime rib, The potatoes see all, know all. A rat in boxer shorts smoking a foul smelling cigar is banging on a cabinet shouting about rent money.

Kashyyk

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Re: (SG) Widow: A Duchess Scorned
« Reply #119 on: April 06, 2016, 05:40:56 am »

Regarding the potioner's guild, we could halve the prices. We still make more money than true price, and we'll appear to be a decent person to the customers.

Custom undead: What about a bird of some kind? It'll be intelligent/controlled enough to actually reach the destination, and not look too suspicious or threatening for guards to be concerned. Unless we want our messenger to do the persuading, we'll only be sending letters, and Harry Potter has taught us that random birds work best for that.
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