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Author Topic: Is instrument distribution completely random?  (Read 1910 times)

PatrikLundell

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Is instrument distribution completely random?
« on: March 30, 2016, 07:07:13 am »

I suspect DF instrument allocation is bugged after having two fortresses where everyone insists on simulating about 3 instruments that are neither possible to create in the fortress, nor possible to buy from the elven or human caravans (my civ is dead, so I don't know if they could have been bought from the dwarven caravan, although it would be logical that the locally available instruments were the same as those of the mountainhome.
I don't have a problem with visiting bards wanting to use the instruments they are familiar with, but the locals in my second fortress simulate the same set as the visiting bards do (my first fortress didn't get any visitors).

What I'm getting at is that it seems DF generate a bunch of instruments and a bunch of music using instruments, and then distributes both randomly between civs, so the likelihood of your civ ending up knowing any music that use your instruments is rather low. (I did see a single case of the use of an instrument in a short lived intermediate fortress, though).

If my guess above is correct, a more appropriate approach would be to generate instrument sets (where the same instrument can appear in multiple sets) and then generate music appropriate for each set. Each civ would then get a starting package consisting of instruments and music appropriate for those instruments.
The acquisition of knowledge of how to make foreign instruments will have to wait for some unknown future time, though.
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Mostali

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2016, 07:43:16 am »

Just to make sure, you have checked all types of workshops?  I've had instruments that only require one part and they appear only in that workshop, not in the craftsdwarf workshop at all.  Specifically the forge, though I suspect it's possible in a glass furnace or kiln as well.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2016, 08:28:00 am »

Yes, I've checked in all workshops (in the current fortress that excludes bowyer and siege engineer's shop, which I haven't built, but don't think can produce instruments). I've had single piece glass instruments at least in the past.
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mirrizin

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2016, 08:37:32 am »

Perhaps related, I've made multiple instruments of multiple kinds, traded for them, stocked my tavern, even installed a few big ones...

But I've never seen them played.

I've looked over my dwarves, and there are definitely some who have the skill.

Am I missing something?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2016, 09:08:21 am »

In order for an instrument to be played (which I think can be attempted regardless of skill, as you have to start learning somewhere), the piece played has to be for that instrument, and what they play is controlled by what they know. Thus, you should check what instruments they are simulating and compare to those you have available. My guess above is that they're simulating because they want instruments you don't have, but if you catch them simulating one you have (without someone else playing on the only one you've got, of course), you've shown my guess is either wrong or incomplete.
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Mostali

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2016, 12:27:27 pm »

I'm with mirrizin.  I've made plenty of dwarven and traded for plenty of human and elven.  I've even kept a lists of parts and how many were completely built etc.  I've never observed my dwarves performing on their own, only occasionally with visitors.  Maybe I'm suffering from the same problem you're describing and just don't know it.

Is it possible to view the requirements for a performance piece without actually having the piece being performed?  I would much rather build the instruments I need then blindly build/buy everything and hope I get it covered.

-----
Mostly unrelated to the discussion, my current fort has a percussion instrument made up of drum and head called "Nobang".
« Last Edit: March 30, 2016, 12:39:02 pm by Mostali »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2016, 01:38:29 pm »

Yes, it's a "thump"...

I don't know of any way to see a piece that's just known but not active, nor do a know any way to see which discoveries my dorfs have made except by catching the message in the masterworks production message spam.

If you just want the instruments you need you should probably look at what they're simulating, as I believe they can learn new pieces from visitors and possibly books, so the set isn't static. They should also be able to invent music themselves, but I haven't seen anything on the forums indicating that has been observed. I take the opposite tack and try to produce and procure every type I can get my hands on, with extremely meager results nevertheless.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2016, 03:27:11 pm »

Just to make sure, you have checked all types of workshops?  I've had instruments that only require one part and they appear only in that workshop, not in the craftsdwarf workshop at all.  Specifically the forge, though I suspect it's possible in a glass furnace or kiln as well.

Out of seven instrument skills, 3 (wood, bone, stone) are available at craftsdwarfs', and the other 4 each at one of: forge, glass furnace, kiln and leatherworker. So craftsdwarfs' won't have one-piece metal, glass, ceramic and leather instruments. But it doesn't matter to my dwarves, they won't play anything, even stationary ones. I don't know why. I suspect too many jobs.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2016, 10:12:26 pm »

They all find plenty of time to hang out at the library, picking books, discussing levers with visiting scholars so I don't think it's a matter of them being too busy. Some of my dwarves at the library have instrument skills, but despite a box of made and imported from humans instruments and both tavern and temple with a big floor space, no-one ever seems to grab one. It's very sad.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2016, 02:09:10 am »

Mine do the same, they love their library. I think it is too many jobs, because they are always busy with something. If they can't find anything else to do, they go to the swimming track (i.e. ride a vehicle). Probably performing is too low priority, or needs more dwarves than available to occur. I do have some hopes for new migrant kids, many of them are very talented. But they are too young to be employed as performers.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2016, 06:44:36 am »

You'll get your dorfs into the tavern/temple/library if you use an R&R season where only basic activities are performed (planting, harvesting, animal retraining, collecting the latest kea wave from the cage traps...). I use the winter for R&R and the dorfs socialize, pray, read, recite poetry, sing, and simulate instruments to a significant extent. I've even seen some dancing. Most of them are obviously listening/watching others performing, but that's to be expected.
The use of an R&R season makes for a slower pace fortress, though, and I generally don't start doing this until year 2-4, since my crews are so small due to playing dead civs, and I want basics to be covered before easing off.
If your dorfs are discussing levers etc. they're assigned to the library, and that may or may not impact other activities depending on individuals and time. I've had some success with dorfs having regular duties while being assigned to the library discussing etc. during the R&R period, but mostly work during the rest of the year. You'll probably get the best results from micro management of assigning dorfs to the library and then rotate them out to be replaced by others, selecting only those suitable for scholarly pursuits, of course.
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martinuzz

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2016, 08:23:36 am »

Yeah I've noted the same as the OP. Dwarves love simulating instruments that are not craftable or brought by caravans.

I suppose it's a bit of a bug. It does not really make sense for this many dwarves to be generated with knowledge of music and instruments that are not part of their civilization, or their trade partner's civilization.
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mirrizin

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2016, 10:02:57 pm »

I've seen a good deal of poetry and storytelling. I've seen a few dances, I think. But I've never noticed them singing or playing musical instruments.
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Bwint

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2016, 10:43:57 pm »

Thanks guys for sharing that you have dances; I've never seen one myself. Nor have I seen anyone play one of the many fine instruments built in my tavern. I have to admit, I had started to lose interest in the whole tavern scene, but now I'm thinking of giving my dwarves a year off and seeing what happens.

It is annoying that performance skills are rusting when I have plenty of instruments, though.
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mirrizin

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Re: Is instrument distribution completely random?
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2016, 04:54:00 pm »

Thanks guys for sharing that you have dances; I've never seen one myself. Nor have I seen anyone play one of the many fine instruments built in my tavern. I have to admit, I had started to lose interest in the whole tavern scene, but now I'm thinking of giving my dwarves a year off and seeing what happens.

It is annoying that performance skills are rusting when I have plenty of instruments, though.
Definitely annoying.
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