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Author Topic: A thought on anvils  (Read 1485 times)

Jazz Cat

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A thought on anvils
« on: November 27, 2017, 04:17:07 pm »

I'm about to embark, and I can't take an iron anvil with me, only a steel one. Now, my understanding is that this happens when your starting civ doesn't have access to iron. But... how did they get the steel, then? I can't think of a situation where a civilization would have access to steel anvils but not iron ones.
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Fearless Son

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Re: A thought on anvils
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2017, 04:25:44 pm »

Armok took pity on them and granted them a steel anvil through divine intervention. 
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PatrikLundell

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Re: A thought on anvils
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2017, 06:05:03 pm »

It's a simulation deficiency.

It's caused by DF not implementing metal access correctly, i.e. alloys derived from other metals do not have their access computed based on the source metal availability. Instead, the derived ones are assumed available (I think there are special rules regarding steel access).
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Saiko Kila

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Re: A thought on anvils
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2017, 08:02:22 am »

I can't think of a situation where a civilization would have access to steel anvils but not iron ones.

The reasons are given above, but the hypothetical situation is easy to imagine. It can be the civ version of goblinite - when the attacking civs (like human) use steel only (because they deem iron to weak against dwarves for example). Then the attacked dwarves have only steel to melt, and you can't make iron out of steel currently.

Personally, I never make iron weapons and armour too, I jump straight to steel if iron is available. Iron trap components, cages or pump parts yes, but no strictly military stuff. So if any of the invaders wins (hypothetically) and takes my weapons and helmets for recycling, they have only steel items to melt.
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zwei

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Re: A thought on anvils
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2017, 09:08:24 am »

It's a simulation deficiency.

It's caused by DF not implementing metal access correctly, i.e. alloys derived from other metals do not have their access computed based on the source metal availability. Instead, the derived ones are assumed available (I think there are special rules regarding steel access).

It also makes sense when you consider theese two things

1) You need anvil to make anvil and you can not make stone anvil. You also want to have magma proof anvil.

So there always needs to be anvil available at embark / from trades and it needs to be made from steel.

2) You want to make sure civilization has access to weapon-grade materials (= Steel, Bronze, Iron).

Improved simulation would likely disarm many civilizations.

Simulation would have to improve to handle theese deficiencies:

 * Anvil craftable from stone materials.
 * Additional metal material for anvil (bronze)
 * Viable non-metal weapons (Stone axes, Stone tipped spears)
 * Ability to boostrap fortress for metalless civilization (stone pickaxes, stone axes)

 * Metal sources from trade taken into account
 * Settlements estabilished to obtain resources or wars over existing settlements because of resources.

PatrikLundell

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Re: A thought on anvils
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2017, 10:23:58 am »

The standard iron anvils are magma proof, but yes, a dwarven embark without an anvil has to get one via trade.
Obsidian swords are currently available, so you can get weapons without an anvil (but you still need a pick axe and a non training axe for wood cutting). Bone pick axes can occasionally come out as the result of a mood.
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