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[Fleeting Frames]

Iirc needs are supposed to be up to ±50% speed and skill - not sure if before Legendary+5 cap or after it, and even then Accomplished is still pretty good. I also notice Distracted! forgotten beasts don't react as well, maybe not move as well either?

Ultimately, perhaps the biggest reason to fulfil needs might be that the blinking downwards yellow arrow is annoying. It's also something to do.

Fulfilling all needs of some dwarves should be possible, though at the same time is more difficult. If you take the temple-reciting quite focused Meng above, all his missing needs can be fulfilled. You'd need a herring to eat, a masterwork trifle pewter amulet to haul and acquire, an excellent pair of socks to wear, a book on the construction of windlass to learn, a spouse to speak with, a plant to gather and a sword to kill weak wildlife with.

You'd also need to do this all before the other needs degrade to normal levels. I'm not sure what the decay rate is (from max 400) and how need_level affects it, counting 100 steps only has degradation by 1 for drinking alcohol or acquiring something.

Heh - and you'd need to decide to do all this instead of ordering Meng to produce an extra item or two.

For making new friends, one player has reported some success with multiple smaller places to meet, making it more likely for dwarves to spend time adjacent to each other. Though obviously, nothing beats prenuptial paired suites for getting them to marry, which is my recommendation - don't brother with larger meeting areas if this is your goal, just lock them together in a cramped room with food and drink. Both location/meeting areas and normal meeting areas will work for getting marriages.

[FantasticDorf]

Well the logic appears sound when you factor in how lovers have developed in communal dorms, since sleeping adjacent to one another seems to be productive in these relationships between batchelors, also the wagon is a extremely crowded spot and dwarves are left to talk adjacent to food for a long while.

Immediately designs are coming to my mind in which you could just take a large meeting zone and then separate it into smaller chunks using interior doors so that dwarves are forced between the space and have grates etc for security so there aren't any blind spots. Animals and pets crowding in small rooms is partially the reason however why i think those designs are not so popular.

[Dragonborn]

Has there been any new insight into this issue with the needs system being broken?

I frequently see unfocused thoughts due to “being away from family”.  In one particular case, both a husband and wife had this thought.  I watched them both as they stood in a tavern near each other.  By “near”, I mean within 3 tiles.  I followed them for about a week in game.  They stayed in the tavern the whole time socializing, dancing in the group, listening to stories within arms reach of each other, but they still left with the need unmet.

I know I’ve seen a thought like “fondness after interacting with his spouse” but I just don’t know what triggers it.

[h27kim]

My nagging suspicion (and I reverted to 40.24 after being frustrated by the unmeetable needs) was that dorfs pick up food and choose their socialization partners semi-randomly--whichever that they are close to or something not too different from it.  Not once did I see (but I did not track very carefully, fwiw) a dorf deliberately choose to socialize with their lover, spouse, child, or parent when they are nearby but not in immediate proximity in a tavern, nor dwarfs actively seek out food items that they like.  I think dorfs pick out items and claim items that they like...but, again, only if they are in immediate proximity, and the reason they pick up items they are hauling is that, by necessity, items that they are hauling are in their immediate vicinity.  Not carefully investigated on my part and mostly speculation, of course.  But one thing I suspect is that if a dorf likes X, and if the dorf is forced into immediate vicinity (e.g. same tile) as X, with or without hauling enabled, the dorf will claim it--although I have not tested this.

[h27kim]

As for wandering, I've seen dwarves go wandering about on the surface, coming back with satisfied needs.

Given how other need satisfaction violates burrows, I wouldn't be surprised if the morons violating civilian alert burrows going on walkabouts out to enemy siegers are trying to do just that.

Hmm.  I've observed this in 42.06 Breadbowl.  Had a squad not actively training.  Gave squad order to move to an area outside the fortress.  Then later cancelled move / station order.  So the squad is not active. 

Sometimes, I see some lone squad member hang out on the last move order spot with No Job indicator.  Could be related to wandering, perhaps?  Or just a remnant pathing of a cancelled move order.

I'd seen this a lot, even in 40.24, before dorfs decided that they wanted to wander.  For some reason, dorfs keep going back to where they did something under orders--into the danger room, where they killed a camel, or a goblin, etc.  I kinda wondered if Toady programmed something about dorfs reminiscing about old battles or injuries or something, but that seemed a bit improbable and is more likely the remnant pathing of past move orders.

[PatrikLundell]

@h27kim: I've looked at desirable meals, and as far as I've seen dorfs are capable of seeking out booze and raw ingredients they like even if they're out of the way, but at best inept at seeking out ingredients in meals (others have reported seeing meals being sought out, but I have no certain cases, while I've confirmed dorfs have eaten meals without favored ingredients while meals with such an ingredient are available in the fortress).

There is a data structure element for the last location a dorf worked in, and it might be dorfs occasionally drift there when out of work (which ought to be rather rare, as that ought to happen only when the socializing, reading, and praying needs are fully topped up).

[FantasticDorf]

I still need to tweak my test conditions, occasionally with test fortresses in regards to 0010309: Occupation behaviours are active jobs which seems to be pretty crucial in interrupting dwarves with never ending activities since the removal of breaks/parties allowing dwarves to exclude themselves, at the moment you can work a dwarf to near death until they have a overriding need, vampires indefinitely more or less.

Deactivating a activity site prior (as well as after if you have the game paused, like how wrongly configured stockpiles gush forth with dwarves pre-queuing objects) to making a occupation area stops dwarves getting trapped inside (unintentionally unless needs are exaggerated), but the needs system is still heavily intensive so the time that is spent usually juggling the three requirements.

[Dragonborn]

My nagging suspicion (and I reverted to 40.24 after being frustrated by the unmeetable needs) was that dorfs pick up food and choose their socialization partners semi-randomly--whichever that they are close to or something not too different from it.

That gives me an idea...I wonder if they will interact with spouses before or after sleeping in the same bed?  Spouses share the same bed and will sleep at the same time, right?  I wonder if the "fondness from interacting with a spouse" thought comes from this, since it involves them occupying the same tile.  If it's an issue of proximity, sleeping might be one of the few times where dwarves will purposely occupy the same tile.

[h27kim]

My nagging suspicion (and I reverted to 40.24 after being frustrated by the unmeetable needs) was that dorfs pick up food and choose their socialization partners semi-randomly--whichever that they are close to or something not too different from it.

That gives me an idea...I wonder if they will interact with spouses before or after sleeping in the same bed?  Spouses share the same bed and will sleep at the same time, right?  I wonder if the "fondness from interacting with a spouse" thought comes from this, since it involves them occupying the same tile.  If it's an issue of proximity, sleeping might be one of the few times where dwarves will purposely occupy the same tile.

That's my suspicion, and fits with the intuition of the honeymoon suite--except the latter forces them to spend even more time at the same/adjacent tiles by making them take breaks in their bedrooms in addition to sleeping in the same tile.  But it does not seem like dorfs generally don't go out of their way to seek out friends/spouses/lovers (or favorite foods).  It might be that they are "trying to," but it's bugged (as per Patrick's observation), but I haven't tracked things carefully enough to offer anything more concrete than suspicion/speculation.

[PatrikLundell]

I don't think sleeping in the same bed helps much (and left to themselves, the odds of them going to sleep at the same time are bad anyway). The reason for this thought is that they're not interacting with anything while asleep, and interaction is probably mutual (copulation/spore transfer requires both parties to be awake, for instance).

[Dunamisdeos]

I am almost positive that being away from friends/family means that they have friends/family in a different fort off the map.

Every time I've seen this I check their relationship menu and they have a father or some such that is back at the capital. I don't have any real data, just anecdotal.

[FantasticDorf]

How are they supposed to fufill those needs without establishing new families away from the fortress? A similar dilemma is posed with adventurers who refuse to engage romantic relationships with others of their kind because almost always they have a spouse in their active settlement even after petitioning then are committed to them, not nearly as adulterous as required.

Interesting actually, does a dwarf immigrants (un-announced) list of probable old friends interrupt the formation of making new ones, given as many of those dwarves may know each other well if they grew up in that settlement.

[Shadowdragon00]

There's a new version?

[FantasticDorf]

There's a new version?

It was new (once), now we're discussing the present & past versions.

[PatrikLundell]

I am almost positive that being away from friends/family means that they have friends/family in a different fort off the map.

Every time I've seen this I check their relationship menu and they have a father or some such that is back at the capital. I don't have any real data, just anecdotal.

I believe you're mistaken in this respect, as void dwarves can complain about being away from friends and family as well, and they've never had any family anywhere (until the overseer arranges that they marry and get some, apart from when it's a parent and child migrant), and they obviously don't have friends elsewhere either.

@FantasticDorf: Void dorfs are incredibly poor at making friends as well (apart from the starting 7), so I doubt pre existing friendships of actual migrants make much of a difference.