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Author Topic: Icing problems  (Read 844 times)

msilenus

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Icing problems
« on: May 10, 2016, 10:11:15 pm »

In an ill-advised bid to combat daylight adaptation, I exposed my mist generator staircase to light.  Now the top tile freezes with the onset of winter.  I don't know if any poor Urists are trapped in there right now, but I'd like to avoid it happening next year if not.

So how do I deal with this? My first thought is magma, obviously, but the placement doesn't really work.

That aside, I think there are two strategies that could work
1) Temperature control to prevent freezing.
2) Dorf exclusion with tile drainage.

I can't place a fortification on the death tiles to exclude passing dwarves, because that will create a floor and water won't flow through right.  Waling them out of the space would be insanely disruptive to fortress design and create a bunch of extra steps.
 
I can't use vertical bars or a wall grate, because those won't build on empty space.

If blocking the sun were going to work, I don't think it would have frozen in the first place because the whole thing was always under a bridge.  But will multiple layers of insulation help?  I've considered building a couple Z-levels of insulating walls over where the bridge used to be --sort of like the Chernobyl sarcophagus except backwards.

Maybe nether cap floor grates above and below could help stabilize the temperature?

I guess I could start leaving the space open, but then I'm worried about Dorfs sidestepping into the void and falling to their deaths.  Or does that not actually happen?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Icing problems
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2016, 01:58:16 am »

I think you're stuffed. Once the tile has been exposed it will remain surface forever (and a bridge does nothing to create inside in the first place, I think. At least bridges don't block trees from growing).
I guess a roof/wall above and some DFHackery to modify tile properties (I assume such things are available) might bring things back the intended state. Magma "flowing" beneath is supposed to work, and I believe magma "flowing" on the tile above should work as well.
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ManaUser

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Re: Icing problems
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2016, 02:04:52 am »

When I was using the cold the breach an aquifer recently, I sort of got the impression that water wouldn't freeze if there was already natural ice above it. Am I completely wrong about this?
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mgotthard

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Re: Icing problems
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2016, 08:31:00 am »

You can use DFHack to put back the Rock and change properties of the tile... But otherwise I'm pretty sure the top tile of water will freeze each winter.
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ManaUser

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Re: Icing problems
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2016, 08:48:04 am »

So if it's true that only the top tile of water freezes (and I want to be clear I'm not real confident about this), wouldn't it be possible to protect the staircase by constructing a small reservoir about it?
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Vattic

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Re: Icing problems
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2016, 09:31:06 am »

Magma on the tile above another with a floor between will keep it thawed, but if you leave it to sit still for too long it'll stop. To get around this you'll need to use pumps to make it move. If I am understanding correctly you have a vertical shaft which you are dropping water down who's top tile has frozen? If so then the whole shaft is likely considered outside and thawing the top will not stop ice forming further down.

Edit: I am unsure whether a layer of ice will stop water below from freezing, but suspect not. My doubt stems from mostly messing with pre-generated glacier ice, which might not perform the same.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 09:34:53 am by Vattic »
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Starver

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Re: Icing problems
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2016, 10:07:52 am »

I enjoy the idea that an inadvised exposure of a tile to sometimes-freezing daylight is being propsed to be solved by the routing of magma immediately above a potential mix of both misting-water and dwarfs.

If OP isn't entirely confident that there are no drawbacks to this scenario, perhaps best to try re-establishment of the misty stairwall, afresh, off to one (still subterranian) side of the current cooling light-shaft, letting each function at doing what it is best at.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 10:11:08 am by Starver »
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Dirst

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Re: Icing problems
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2016, 11:56:48 am »

It stops functioning as a mist generator while plugged, correct?  So long as there is an alternate route, I don't see a problem closing this particular amusement park for the winter.  The original goal seemed to be mitigating cave adaptation and giving some misty stress relief without micromanagement, so what if it only operates nine months out of the year?

The trick is timing the park closure to just before the ice forms, so that no late-season tourists get trapped in there.  This calls for a massively over-complicated timing device!
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