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Author Topic: On the general subject of clothing  (Read 4733 times)

rachiebird

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On the general subject of clothing
« on: May 02, 2016, 02:48:12 am »

Or, I've just started working on my clothing industry, and it's made me a little curious about how other people manage theirs.

Ideally, I'd want to give my citizens all the nice clothes their little hearts desire (I'd consider myself a little too much of a softie in certain regards.) But their little hearts seem to desire a lot of clothes, to wear all at once. Personally, I'd probably have a little more fun with it if there weren't so many slots that dwarves feel like they have to fill simultaneously. Dress and shirt and skirt and trousers? Really?? We've been in this fortress for almost four years and it's never even snowed. Why are you dressing like it's the artic?

Right now I'm splitting my attentions between making enough trousers and shirts to go around and trying to nip this "hoarding tattered clothes" obsession at the bud.

I've also noticed, as I rifle through their personal possessions, that a lot of my dwarves have picked up the baffling habit of claiming new clothes from the tailor, only to put them straight in their cabinets and continue wearing their tattered things. One of my dwarves has no less than two masterworks in his cabinet, for example. The only reason I'm not more annoyed is that I'm already up to my ears in cloth and borderline legendary clothiers.
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Sver

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2016, 04:06:17 am »

The whole thing with clothing can be irritating sometimes, but, well, it's almost the only thing that keeps player busy in a late-game fort (if not for some elaborate construction indeed).
I usually just make shirts, trousers, socks and shoes, which is enough for a region that is temperate or warmer. Sometimes I paint cloth to ease the ill effect of old coats and capes wearing out. Also, one should always sell clothing before it evaporates. Especially if it's a masterwork.
And yeah, clothing is better to be done in consignments, like "harvest an X amout of pig tail fields and then stop", or it will pile up quickly.
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King Kitteh

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2016, 04:16:52 am »

I've been working with an idea of Tribal Dwarves and currently I've done away with clothes completely.

If you want to do away with clothes add [PERSONALITY:BASHFUL:0:0:0] to the dwarf RAWS.

Then they will feel nothing about having no clothes (they will still attempt to wear them).


Otherwise I usually just mass produce shirts, pants and shoes. Also importing from caravans. Some people have modded themselves full-body garments so dwarves only need one or two pieces of clothing.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2016, 05:23:48 am »

I try to keep my dorfs supplied with a full set of masterworks clothing. There are 10 production items they can wear at the same time, so I produce those on repeat and sell off the sub standard stuff to the garbage trucks, as well as all the worn junk (DFHack "cleanowned scattered x" issued at the beginning of each new year, which saves you from hunting down all that junk manually).
In addition to these 10 production items, they want underwear, which I buy from the elves and liberate from invaders when possible. There's also an exotic face thingie, I think face veil, which rarely is available. I believe the wiki page on armor shows which items belong to which layers.

Apart from being a softie thing to do, supplying your dorfs with a lot of nice clothing helps with satisfying the corresponding need (there's one for clothing, bumped up each time a new piece is acquired, and a different one for trinkets).

I've noted that some dorfs store new stuff rather than wear it as well, but have no idea why they do that. I've decided not to bother, though.

The standard ways of handling clothing chores are to produce the minimum set to cover essentials, and to assign everyone a military uniform of armor.
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ManaUser

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2016, 12:49:40 pm »

Shoes, bodywear and legwear are the only parts they care about, so a logical solution approach would seem to be making only one type of each. I don't think dwarves will normally layer multiple pants, will they?

One time I embarked with nothing bunch of food, booze and cloth and forced dwarves to stand around in various states of undress... no not just because I'm a pervert, I was trying to figure out the specifics of the clothing requirements. But the details of the expedition must have leaked or something, because apparently everyone who signed up was completely shameless. They all "Didn't feel anything to be uncovered." etc. So that was fairly useless. In other forts I've had dwarves get either embarrassed or humiliated by nudity, so I donno what accounts for this bunch. Also... I can't help but wonder, are there any dwarves who actually get a kick out of it? I've seen a dwarf who felt jolly at a crowded table instead for the usual annoyance so might there be exhibitionists too?

Anyway perhaps the only vaguely useful insight from the experiment is that the thoughts don't occur very fast, I had to leave them standing around topless or whatever for a while before it would show up.
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Sver

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2016, 12:57:51 pm »

One time I embarked with nothing bunch of food, booze and cloth and forced dwarves to stand around in various states of undress... no not just because I'm a pervert
I'll sig that if you're fine with it. XD
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Kogan Onulsodel

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2016, 01:22:15 pm »

I'd argue that the minimalist thing to do is just make trousers, shirts, and socks (not shoes because then you have to worry about conflicts with boots for your military... it's not a huge difference, but you do need to micromanage a little bit more). Adding in robes could be nice to add just a little bit of extra protection, especially if you make them out of leather. You'll get some unhappy thoughts as things rot away, and they'll probably all come more or less at once (instead of being spread out, as they are when dwarves simply refuse to wear their new threads), so there might be a dangerous period of stressed dwarves... but then again, in the latest version, it's so hard to actually get dwarves stressed, that'll probably be ok. Also, it might be that they end up getting enough clothes from other sources that it doesn't end up working like that (maybe I'll have to forbid all shoes).

By the way, this is a new approach for me, too, but I think I'll be trying it for my new fort. Maybe it'll be FUN, but it might also lead to a lot less micromanagement.
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ManaUser

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2016, 03:23:15 pm »

I thought dwarves would replace XXclothingXX before it actually fell apart, as long as a replacement was available, of course.

Can't find anything about that on the wiki now... Am I wrong about this?
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Kogan Onulsodel

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2016, 03:36:59 pm »

I thought dwarves would replace XXclothingXX before it actually fell apart, as long as a replacement was available, of course.

Can't find anything about that on the wiki now... Am I wrong about this?

They're supposed to. There have definitely been times when I've been swimming in masterwork clothing (with a couple legendary clothiers just constantly producing all the clothing types on repeat) and I've STILL had dwarves who never replaced their clothing. There's probably some kind of micromanagement I could have done to make that not happen, but I don't know the trick.

Anyway, with the "minimialist" scheme, that certainly won't happen for many of the clothing types. If you never make more shoes, eventually there will be some stress from shoes rotting away, unless you go in and make people take off their shoes somehow.

Also, on the subject of worn clothing, I really wish there was a "wear" option on clothing stockpiles. Just make it so that all worn, tattered, etc., clothing goes to a stockpile near the trade depot (or a chute to drop it in magma, or an atom smasher, or...)
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ManaUser

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2016, 04:20:55 pm »

The only way I know to directly control what they wear is through the military screen. You can set it to replace civilian clothes, i.e. wear only the uniform, and by default it applies even off duty (this is what I used for my enforced nudity fortress experiment). I would hope that if you used this to make them change outfits they would at least have the sense to select pristine clothes while they're at it, but they can be remarkably dim sometimes, so who knows. And anyway that sounds like an awful lot of work.
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Immortal-D

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2016, 06:11:51 pm »

I also take the spartan approach; Toga, Trousers, and Shoes.  I might occasionally produce Vests & Socks if I'm feeling generous.

Kogan Onulsodel

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2016, 07:05:28 pm »

I also take the spartan approach; Toga, Trousers, and Shoes.  I might occasionally produce Vests & Socks if I'm feeling generous.

Do you have any problems with unhappy thoughts as the clothes they embark with decay? I'm just about to try this approach in my new fort, just wondering what to expect.
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Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2016, 08:05:44 pm »

The use of DFHack's cleanowned X will solve that issue.

Also, degraded masterworks do not cause bad thoughts for creators. Sold masterworks, as of v.0.42.06, will. This is a bug, and will be fixed for v.0.42.07.
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rachiebird

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #13 on: May 03, 2016, 12:14:33 am »

Haha, oh man. I'm cackling wildly over your plans getting sabotaged because you ended up with a bunch of shameless buggers. No wonder Mountainhome was trying to get rid of them. I really hope that somewhere out there there's a dwarf who goes the extra mile and gets happy thoughts from being in the nude.

I'm probably gonna go with shirts+trousers+socks+shoes, at least for now. Maybe buy out the caravans and let dwarves fend for themselves if they want extra accessories.

Shockingly, it seems like the dwarves are all being very good, and dumping the tattered clothes as I tell them too. So it seems like I might be safe in terms of clothes rotting. Though, I wasn't super worried about it in the first place. Most of my dwarves have gotten their stress levels stuck at something like -9999?

Based on the various observations I've made during this in-game clothing-rush, I'm starting to feel like the clothing system is one of the bigger ways for dwarves to express their unique individualities. Either that or everthing's completely buggy and I'm reading too far into it.
  • The aforementioned "masterwork hoarding". More thoroughly examining the guilty parties, I've determined that two of them were already wearing pristine ≡trousers/shirts≡, so I guess they were planning ahead. The other guy was simply not wearing a shirt, and didn't seem bothered by that fact.
  • Most dwarves stop whatever they're doing and strip whenever they sense new clothes coming into existence, but I've seen several walk all the way to the workshop and leave their discarded clothing in a neat pile next to it.
  • Certain dwarves never bother to put their clothes in their cabinets, but they always leave things on their bed, never on the floor.
I've been holding off on trying cleanowned x because I'm not certain about what exactly happens to the clothes it cleans. I thought it'd be nice to use the subpar clothing and make a couple bucks off traders. I kind of suspected that masterwork clothing was a little like masterwork food in that creators don't get upset if their stuff gets destroyed when being used as intended. But it's comforting to get confirmation.
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RandAnima

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Re: On the general subject of clothing
« Reply #14 on: May 03, 2016, 12:54:32 am »

So I came up with an idea to have a nearly entirely sock based fortress.  But I can't get dorfs to haul the socks.  No matter what.  Done all the stockpile trouble shooting.  It's madness.  Anyone else encountered this?
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