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Poll

Next race...

Goblins, evil kidnappers...
Necromancers, uber-evil mages...
Skaven, underground-living ratmen with clans...
Insect hive, zerg/tyranid-style...
Naga, water-based magic snakemen...

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Author Topic: Future of the mod - Progress & Suggestions - race poll  (Read 74106 times)

IndigoFenix

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2016, 09:27:38 am »

Hello Fenix, how is Gnomes going? Will they be updated?

I would like to try and update the gnomes for the new version, unfortunately I don't have the time right now to write up a whole machine system like before.  Of course, the complexity of using them is a large part of what made them unpopular.

The main focus of the gnomes is to encourage indirect methods of defense such as pets and machinery.  Once I have a better idea of what the focus of the new MDF will be like I'll see about remaking them in a more user-friendly way.

I'm hoping the new MDF will be more adventure friendly than the old one.

Sver

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2016, 09:45:42 am »

Just want to say that I'll definitely be eagerly waiting for the gnomes.
*waves pointy hat*
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 10:17:27 am by Sver »
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smakemupagus

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2016, 09:57:07 am »

Hi Insane and anyone else who is interested,

I would very much like there to be Orcs (not just goblins) in future versions of MW, so I definitely support anyone working on it, and will almost certainly play a bit, and maybe mod a bit so that my wife has the features she wants ;) and give you feedback which you can take or leave as you see fit.

As to whether I cast my vote for any particular Orc project as "the official MW Orcs," depends on the output product, I guess.  There are only a small handful of modders I would really endorse sight-unseen, and I have no idea how many of the folks I know are still active :D

There was a Community Patch or maintenance project that picked up Orcs for me while I was away once before, and it significantly improved the mod.  But, it was initially pretty buggy, and took me probably as much work to fix than it would have to do the changes myself.  I couldn't be a part of something like that now, mostly because i don't know how DFHack and such work these days, and what the state of balance is regarding different enemies, materials etc. in the core Masterwork, so it is too complex for me to unravel and rebuild stuff on the fly.  If i were to be actually participating in something again it would probably have to be starting from scratch, like just uruks and snaga and some orky ethics and stone axes, and gradually building back up from there.  (and my availability is like, 30 minutes a couple times a week)

Rekov

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2016, 10:31:12 am »

I am somewhat willing to concede that the current version of DF might not quite be up to an engaging playable elf civilization. Multi tile trees went a long way though, and being able to build constructions in them without ending the world did too. I don't necessarily think an elf civ should be prevented from digging, or at least I wouldn't if there was some way to disincentivize it. Something I suggested a long time ago, but probably still can't be implemented in DF is the notion of 'cave sickness.' Unlike cave adaption where dwarfs spending too much time in caves become dependent on them, the idea with cave sickness is that elves that spend too much time underground become increasingly ill to the point of death. You could tweak the numbers so that it's a really bad idea to send elves underground unless it's life or death, and living underground permanently is entirely non viable. But like I said, I don't know if that's doable.

Other than that, all elves would really need are the ability to grow wood without destroying trees, a few kinds of metal grade woods for their weapons (and potentially armor), maybe a low end metal grade leather, and a bunch of weird animal pets.

Drow on the other hand, I think can fairly successfully be implemented, though not necessarily in their D&D form. They would need hereditary castes, which I think we can assume are coming, but aren't there quite yet.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 10:33:41 am by Rekov »
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LMeire

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2016, 10:40:26 am »

...
Something I suggested a long time ago, but probably still can't be implemented in DF is the notion of 'cave sickness.' Unlike cave adaption where dwarfs spending too much time in caves become dependent on them, the idea with cave sickness is that elves that spend too much time underground become increasingly ill to the point of death. You could tweak the numbers so that it's a really bad idea to send elves underground unless it's life or death, and living underground permanently is entirely non viable. But like I said, I don't know if that's doable.
...


Humans in 6.2 already do that, to a point. They'd slow down and frequently blackout from dizziness unless you kept everything in the sunlight and/or kept the miners on rotating shifts. I think there was talk about extreme cave sickness causing boogeymen to spawn around them, but I never witnessed that happen myself in the 20 or so human forts I did with extensive ill-advised mining.
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Rekov

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #50 on: May 04, 2016, 10:55:08 am »

Humans in 6.2 already do that, to a point. They'd slow down and frequently blackout from dizziness unless you kept everything in the sunlight and/or kept the miners on rotating shifts. I think there was talk about extreme cave sickness causing boogeymen to spawn around them, but I never witnessed that happen myself in the 20 or so human forts I did with extensive ill-advised mining.
Oh, that's really cool then! One of the problems I have with the current playable elves mods is that they all just take mining away entirely. I think there are a number of totally reasonable and lore-friendly reasons for a tree dwelling civilization to occasionally want to dig. Making a cistern for cold weather biomes, mining out ice to damn a river, and so on.
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Meph

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2016, 01:35:56 pm »

...
Something I suggested a long time ago, but probably still can't be implemented in DF is the notion of 'cave sickness.' Unlike cave adaption where dwarfs spending too much time in caves become dependent on them, the idea with cave sickness is that elves that spend too much time underground become increasingly ill to the point of death. You could tweak the numbers so that it's a really bad idea to send elves underground unless it's life or death, and living underground permanently is entirely non viable. But like I said, I don't know if that's doable.
...


Humans in 6.2 already do that, to a point. They'd slow down and frequently blackout from dizziness unless you kept everything in the sunlight and/or kept the miners on rotating shifts. I think there was talk about extreme cave sickness causing boogeymen to spawn around them, but I never witnessed that happen myself in the 20 or so human forts I did with extensive ill-advised mining.
I had a prototype for that but never implemented it, seems too easy to farm bogeymen... get a hallucinating miner, station your military around it, train your military skills for free...

I will post more info on the "future of the mod" on friday. This especially for Smake, IndigoFenix and Boltgun, as well as everyone who wants to add projects to it.
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Nelia Hawk

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2016, 04:00:59 pm »

Drow on the other hand, I think can fairly successfully be implemented, though not necessarily in their D&D form. They would need hereditary castes, which I think we can assume are coming, but aren't there quite yet.

there was a drow mod back in the day... http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70258.0

no idea if since then someone else made another drow one.
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Rekov

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2016, 04:34:51 pm »

Drow on the other hand, I think can fairly successfully be implemented, though not necessarily in their D&D form. They would need hereditary castes, which I think we can assume are coming, but aren't there quite yet.

there was a drow mod back in the day... http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70258.0

no idea if since then someone else made another drow one.
I loved that mod! Rhenaya :( :(

I've been veeery slowly working on a drow tileset in case anyone feels like remaking it.
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Meph

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Re: Update log - Current "what I'm doing"
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2016, 06:20:15 pm »

Succubi are updated.

Dwarves got a couple of trader workshops, but very basic.

Added deons wanderers friend for Adv mode.

GUI now has options for Aquifers and Harder-Learning (50% skill learn rate)

Siegers/Invaders are still very basic. I havent done much on their items, graphics, ethics, etc yet. They are pretty much a goblin-copy entity with fancy creatures instead of goblins.
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Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Future of the mod
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2016, 11:07:33 pm »

I'm a Masterwork newb, so apologies if this is in the wrong place, but would Meph et al. be interested in biome-themed zombies? It's just an idea I had that probably doesn't merit an independent release, but which might go nicely with a larger corpus.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Future of the mod
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2016, 11:54:43 pm »

Concerning cave sickness, it might be better (and more realistic) to cause bad thoughts and personality changes for surface creatures who stay underground instead of dizziness and unconsciousness, now that syndrome moods are a thing.

Meph

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Re: Future of the mod
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2016, 04:14:13 am »

I'm a Masterwork newb, so apologies if this is in the wrong place, but would Meph et al. be interested in biome-themed zombies? It's just an idea I had that probably doesn't merit an independent release, but which might go nicely with a larger corpus.
How would that work? regional interactions are rather unreliable; and none other have biome-specific tags.

Concerning cave sickness, it might be better (and more realistic) to cause bad thoughts and personality changes for surface creatures who stay underground instead of dizziness and unconsciousness, now that syndrome moods are a thing.
Good idea. :)
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Molay

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Re: Future of the mod
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2016, 06:18:42 am »

I'd like to make a suggestion for a cave race: The Pale Ones (Agartha)

If you've played a Dominions or Conquest of Elysium game before, you'll know right away what they are.

However, here a short description.
They are cave-dwelling, amphibious (live as well on land, the Pale Ones, as in the sea, the Wet Ones)  one-eyed humanoids with exceptional vision in the dark that live for a very, very long time. The older they get, the larger they become. Old Ones are essentially giants, a few times the height of a human. The younger ones are probably human-sized, perhaps a little taller. They get their name because of their pale skin, possibly caused by a lack of sun in the caverns where they live.

They are not the most formidable fighters; a bit clumsy perhaps compared to other races, but they are tremendously strong, to the point that they throw rocks at enemy fortifications, where puny humans would have to build siege equipment. So, really strong. They mostly use spears to impale their enemies (note: spear sounds so mundane when you consider the size they have; they are more like oversized pikes). Only the most honored tend to wear "full body" (basically just a breastplate) armor, most Pale Ones forgo the use of armor; there are layers and layers of tissue to cut, and cut deep, before any vital organ could be hit anyway. Most small weapons will have a tough time as is, without them being armored.

The Pale Ones are also versed in a few schools of magic which might not necessarily need to be represented in dwarf fortress. One however very well could: Necromancy. It's not unheard that Pale Ones call upon their elders, the deceased ones that is, and bring them back to life to fight for them. Similarly to animating their own dead, they also animate and imbue the elements with life, commandeering Rock Elementals and Fire Elementals.

The Pale Ones keep troglodytes as we keep pets; except troglodytes are enormous, although relatively stupid, beings. They don't use any weapons, but rely on pure strength to stomp their enemies to death. They are larger than most young pale ones and could possibly challenge a cyclops in smaller groups.

Oh, before I forget, the Ancient Ones (so the really old guys) have neat magic weaponry, which could possibly be modeled by making them out of a new metal. Although those weapons would be unusable by dwarves due to the size difference, dwarves could get their hands on that metal by melting it. Could quite possibly be somewhere between steel and volcanic. It's magic after all.

Here you can read about their lore: http://dom4.wikia.com/wiki/Agartha_(Early_Ages)
And here you can have a look at some of their units, along with sprites to give you an idea: https://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/ (Go to the units tab and select EA Agartha - Pale Ones).

So in summary:
Giant pale humanoids, one eye, very strong but not agile, very tough. Can swim, is amphibian. Few are armored, but their thick layer of tissue helps mitigate a good amount of damage even if unarmored. Preferred weapons would be spears. Elite Pale Ones carry magical weapons and armor, which could be melted down to acquire a better-than-steel metal for reforging in dwarf-sized armor/weaponry.
Could also field some undead variants (Reanimated Old Ones, necromancy -- Umbrals). Could also field rock elementals. Does also field Troglodytes, huge but stupid creatures that don't use weapons but trample/punch things to death.


If you have any questions regarding this, please let me know. I'd love to clarify!

PS: I voted in favor of more regional effects, whether and such, as I supposed everyone else would vote for CIVs anyway (yeah, yeah, I thought too meta here) only to see few people did. Note that I only voted for something else than CIVs because I believe them to be an integral part that will be included either way, or have support either way. So in a sense, I voted for my second pick. I'm sometimes stupid like that :)
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Meph

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Re: Future of the mod
« Reply #59 on: May 05, 2016, 06:31:49 am »

Testing...



A evil biomes with a hemomancer tower (blood-controlling mage) full of blood men. The hemomancer is also a vampire, and upon embarking it starts raining goblin blood.

Nice.
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