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Author Topic: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions  (Read 61387 times)

Bumber

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #135 on: January 11, 2018, 05:52:10 am »

Looking for some help on perpetual orders and hiding completion spam.
Don't use perpetual. Use a fixed quantity and set it to repeat. Perpetual orders never stop, even when you run out of resources.
Do you know if that'll change or is he focused on other stuff as per usual right now instead of UI stuff?
It seems like that's just how it works. Basically, the quantity is the number of jobs to be completed before the order goes back to checking. A perpetual order needs infinite jobs to be completed.

I made a suggestion to change it a while back.
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Mostali

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #136 on: January 12, 2018, 09:42:28 am »

Perpetual orders, from the first post, don't cancel unless resources run out...

Hi there.  In the interest of keeping this thread as clear as possible, could you please tell me specifically what gave you this impression and I'll fix it.  As Bumber said, perpetual orders never cancel, and I think that's also at least worth adding as a FAQ.
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Madrigal

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #137 on: January 12, 2018, 04:53:00 pm »

It seems to me that if you don't read this part carefully enough you could get a mistaken impression (confusing "cancellation of the job" for cancellation of the work order):

Quote
Q:  Is there a way to make up to a certain number of something?
A:  It does not appear so.  The "perpetual" is very similar to the standard workshop "repeat", except that cancellation of the job for whatever reason (e.g. short supply of materials) won't cancel the work order itself.  This leads to steady cancelation spam.

You might try switching things around and adding a bit. Something like this:

The "perpetual" is very similar to the standard workshop "repeat", except that the work order will not be cancelled if the job is cancelled for whatever reason (e.g. short supply of materials).  This can lead to steady cancellation spam as the work order causes the job to be restarted again and again.
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TheBeardyMan

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #138 on: March 13, 2018, 05:16:04 am »

Has anyone had any luck getting the "magma safe" and "powder grinding receptacle" traits to work?

I'm trying to set up a job to create magma safe rock mechanisms, but when I add the "magma safe" trait to the "rock mechanism" product condition, the number of items seen by the condition becomes zero.

Also, I'm trying to set up a job to create bags when I run short of them, but adding the "powder grinding receptacle" trait to the product condition also causes the number of items seen by the condition to become zero - yet another "should have worked" solution to the problem of boxes and bags being the same item type.
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Bumber

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #139 on: March 14, 2018, 11:24:59 am »

Has anyone had any luck getting the "magma safe" and "powder grinding receptacle" traits to work?

I'm trying to set up a job to create magma safe rock mechanisms, but when I add the "magma safe" trait to the "rock mechanism" product condition, the number of items seen by the condition becomes zero.

Also, I'm trying to set up a job to create bags when I run short of them, but adding the "powder grinding receptacle" trait to the product condition also causes the number of items seen by the condition to become zero - yet another "should have worked" solution to the problem of boxes and bags being the same item type.
"Powder grinding receptacle" is for mortars (probably found in night troll lairs.) "Sewn-imageless" should work for bags.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 11:27:15 am by Bumber »
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Lord Snow

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #140 on: March 18, 2018, 04:18:02 am »

How do i check if i have X of [furniture] which are not placed/built?

I want to have a stock of doors, coffins, tables, chairs and maybe statues ready to build, but not spam them unnecessarily.
There is an awful lot of traits in the list but none of them seem to obviously apply to this query.
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anewaname

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #141 on: March 18, 2018, 10:08:23 am »

Once furniture is built, it is no longer counted as available, so an order to produce 2 doors if there are less than two doors available, will ensure you always have 2 or 3 available.

For rock coffers, use the "add conditions from product" to get it list "rock coffers".
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Damiac

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #142 on: March 26, 2018, 12:30:25 pm »

I've been playing with these workorders a lot (I'm an automation engineer for my job, and for some reason I love implementing it in my games!)

We know there are some bugs with the system, and some holes that could be patched up.  But I haven't seen anyone mention this:

Gems:
Whenever I uncover a new type of gem, I immediately create 2 manager orders. 
Order 1: Cut that gem. qty 1. Condition: 1 of that rough gem is available.
Order 2: Encrust a finished good with that gem. Qty 1. Condition: 1 of that cut gem is available.

Note that the gems are stored in stockpiles without bins, because bins do bad things sometimes.

Now, looking at my orders, it should be obvious that I should never end up with an order to cut or encrust a gem I don't have.  But, instead, what always happens is that after some time, I end up with cancellation spam from both of these jobs, because I've run out of the rough gem.  But then why was the job created, when the rough gem was one of the conditions?
And then the encrust jobs do the same thing.

I don't think this issue is unique to gems, but they do a good job illustrating it.  I have a few suspicions, but I hope other people have witnessed similar stuff and could maybe lend some insight.  Here's some ideas as to what's happening:

A. When the job condition is true, it assigns 1 cut gem job to every jeweler workshop. 
     I don't think this is the case, it would be trivially obvious if this happened. But it would result in the behavior I'm seeing.
B. Somehow, after the job completes, the system re-creates the job, looking at the rough gem which was used in the job as the condition, before deleting the rough gem and creating the cut one. 
     If this is the case, this sort of thing should happen pretty much all the time to any job with a reagents item requirement.  Which could be
     the case, because after a year or so the cancellation spam is constant and unreadable.
C. Sort of like B, but the manager must be in his office when it happens so he is available to immediately re-assign the job.  I don't know enough about how repeat jobs interact with the manager, or if they do at all after initial activation.
    This would explain why this doesn't happen every single time, which leads me to believe it's closer to what's actually happening.

I'm inclined to believe it's some sort of scan order problem like I outlined in B.  Finish job -> recheck job conditions and re-assign if conditions true -> delete used ingredients in job(rough gem) -> create job result(cut gem).
If I'm correct that the manager actually needs to go to his office to re-assign completed repeat jobs, then this problem would only occur if the manager were in his office at the time, and then the scan order has to be even more specific:
Finish job -> Check if manager in office:  If yes (recheck job conditions and re-assign if conditions true) If no, skip this step -> delete used ingredients in job(rough gem) -> create job result(cut gem).


If I'm at all right about what's happening, then the fix would have to be to have jobs resolve all items first, then recheck the conditions. But there's a very strong possibility I'm completely wrong about why this is happening, so I'd love to hear other people's experiences and ideas.
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mikekchar

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #143 on: March 26, 2018, 10:43:44 pm »

I've had this problem specifically with gems (and even more specifically with gems and bins -- though you aren't using bins).  I spent a lot of time tracking down each issue and in every case I found a gem that was accessible in terms of the manager orders, but inaccessible to the shop.  That's not saying there aren't bugs, but I couldn't find any.

First, track down every gem in your fortress.  I found gems in weird places (like the dump).  There were all sorts of strange reasons why the dwarfs couldn't get at them.  Another problem is hauling.  If you mine a gem it might take a *really* long time to get to the stockpile.  So the scenario is your dwarf mines a gem.  It falls on the ground.  The dwarf starts mining the next gem.  The manager schedules a task to cut the gem.  A hauler goes to haul the gem to the stockpile.  While the hauler is en route, the gem cutter decides to cut the gem.  Oh! no gem -- spam.

I would have to go back and try it again to remember how to solve the problem.  I eventually did.  I would experiment with giving the job to a single workshop and linking to the input stockpile....  I'm not sure if that will work, but it's something to try.  I *think* the job won't trigger if the stockpile is empty, but I can't remember.
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Damiac

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #144 on: March 27, 2018, 09:52:38 am »

No, manager orders don't respect links, so linking a stockpile would only add more spam.
I would think a jeweler would just go pick up a gem off the floor where it was mined rather than cancel the job. True, in transit gems could cause temporary cancellation spam until the gem is dropped off, but I know for sure that's not always been the case.

The other thing is, if I examine the order itself when this situation happens, it shows the conditions as false.  So that's why I'm so confused why the order fired off in the first place!

I will check my dump, but I'd be very surprised, I don't do much dumping, my fort is always full of loose boulders....  Also, I'm pretty sure forbidden items don't count as available (although dump marked items might).

One slight possibility would be gems that got dropped into water. The last fort I was doing this in had an aquifer, so it's possible a gem went into the drink. I'll check on that when I get a chance to play again.
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xordae

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #145 on: May 22, 2018, 07:51:30 am »

I have monthly orders for quires, wooden book bindings and book binding jobs that all work in a chain. But after a while, the item conditions meant to self-limit these jobs stopped recognizing book bindings and quires I had stockpiled, which led to endless overproduction.

When I deleted the orders and remade them, the manager 'found' the right number of written-on quires and book bindings again where it previously returned 'true' only for 0 of each. It still thinks I have 0 quires - which should actually count them all, written-on and empty, shouldn't it? Why are written-on quires properly recognized as being > 50, yet it thinks I have 0 quires? I tried 'empty quires' and a few other traits, no luck.

The stuff is always either stockpiled right away or left in the library. The manager should be able to find both.

Edit: Looks like after some order redoing and stockpile separation, regular quires and book bindings are once again recognized by the manager. We'll see if it lasts!
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 07:21:47 am by xordae »
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Urist McManiac

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #146 on: May 23, 2018, 05:37:17 am »

Not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but my question is at least semi-related and I don't want to open a new thread:

How can I order my dwarves to build a regular statue of someone?

By that, I mean a statue that only depicts the choosen historical figure, without any action or further persons. My civilisation has a goddess of death and suicide (amongst other things) which I'd like to dedicate a statue to in my graveyard. The problem is, whenever I create a work order for a statue, I end up with one depicting some random believer worshipping said goddess. Strangely, that works fine with all other gods, just not that particular one.
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Insert_Gnome_Here

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #147 on: May 23, 2018, 08:26:18 am »

Create a new image or something? 
It's the option that lets you depict 9562932954 dwarves killing 365969 gecko men while 0573927 gila monsters burn.
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Aranna

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #148 on: June 05, 2018, 10:57:05 pm »

I've search the forums & wiki a bit, and it looks like no one has noted this yet, but the Work Order's Traits are grouped together. Basically it looks like there are 4 groups which you can only select 1 option from (and then another which you can literally select every single one if you so desire). I've only really glanced at it, and only confirmed what the "metal group" appears to be referencing and that these 4 groups exist and but here is what I've found (apologies if this is common knowledge)
Breakdown:
Total number of Traits (DF 44.10): 119
  • Metal group: 11 (can only select 1 from this group)
  • Tool group: 23 (can only select 1 from this group)
  • MAT-Producing group: 11 (can only select 1 from this group)
  • REACTION_CLASS group: 8 (can only select 1 from this group)
  • No Group: 66 (Can select all if you want, they don't unselect if you pick another trait)

-The Metal group are the ones which say "*metal*-bearing items" such as "iron-bearing items" or "zinc-bearing items" and counts ores of that metal. I assume it also applies to any moded metals and will add more if more metal ores are made, though I've not tested that.
Spoiler: Metal group (click to show/hide)

-The Tool group are the ones which say "*Tool tag* items", such as "Folded sheet protector items" or the first "Food storage items" which are referencing the tool tags, and so should be looking for any tool with that tag. Most are pretty obvious (eg "Hive items" is the hive), though the 1st "Food storage items" listed on the list is referencing the Large Pot and "Writing container items" are Scrolls and Quires
Spoiler: Tool group (click to show/hide)

-The MAT(erial)-Producing group are the ones which say "*SOME_MAT*-producing items" such as "FIRED_MAT-producing items" or "TAN_MAT-producing items" and I think it counts things that produce that item material, such as the Kaolinite and the Clays being FIRED_MAT-producing items? I've not looked into this one too much atm, so note tested to confirm what exactly they are referencing but I assume its items who's raws say that they produce that item.
Spoiler: MAT-Producing Group (click to show/hide)

-The REACTION_CLASS group are the ones which say *REACTION_CLASS_TAG items* such as "CALCIUM_CARBONATE items" and "GYPSUM items" and I think it's counting items with that reaction class listed in their raws. I assume if you add more with mods they would be added here, but I did not check.
Spoiler: REACTION_CLASS group (click to show/hide)

-The No Group ones don't have anything that makes them clear themselves if selected so you can pick as many as you'd like. Most of them look rather obvious as to their meaning (most are things like "silk items" and "metal items"), though a few are less so.
Spoiler: No Group (click to show/hide)

So simply put you can only select 1 from Metal group, 1 from Tool group, 1 from MAT-Producing group, and 1 from REACTION_CLASS group. You can select all 66 of the No Group (though that will always yield 0 items matching criteria, as some conflict with each other as for example "Lye-Bearing items" and "Lye/milk-free items" likely clash). The Metal group are ores, Tool group are Tools (with Tool use tags/tokens), MAT-Producing group are items who's raws indicate that they produce said material, REACTION_CLASS group are raw-specified reaction classes (see Reaction Class on wiki for some more info, and I think the REACTION_PRODUCT ones above it reference the MAT-Producing group and the METAL_ORE token is likely what the Metal group is looking for. The Tool group is simply looking at the Tool Tokens listed in the table at the bottom of this wiki page), and the No Group is everything else.

And to show it in the order that it is on the list, here is all of them color coded:
Spoiler: All Traits (click to show/hide)

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Bumber

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #149 on: June 07, 2018, 11:06:07 pm »

Interesting research. There are also some traits that only appear for certain jobs. For instance, you didn't list "Lye-Containing items", which appears for soap production only. (See my bug report.)
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?
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