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Author Topic: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions  (Read 61506 times)

Mostali

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2016, 09:33:30 pm »

I like these examples, especially the bolts and clothing.  I put a link to them on the front page.  I figured linking was better than reposting so that you can edit them if you feel like.

I'm curious how well some of these work.

-  If I understand your soap chain correctly, it produces soap until your hospital is filled plus exactly one more.  Then everything else in the chain is 'loaded' for the next production.  That seems way better than mine.  Have you noticed if 'partial bars' count against this?  I might be somewhat afraid of dwarves using a bar once each, but I'm sure that could be worked around even if so.

-  Another soap chain question.  In my soap chain I have to watch out for the kitchen stealing the paste since you can't differentiate between the paste and the cakes in the kitchen menu.  Since you have one 'loaded', is this a problem for you or is it such a small 'leak' that it doesn't really matter?

-  I didn't think of filling 'up to' on clothes.  I used to manually count excess clothes and fill as needed, until I noticed that dwarves seem to keep claiming as long as I kept making.  Ever since then I produce a fixed amount yearly based on number of dwarves and most of my clothes troubles have gone away.  Have you noticed any extra hoarding with auto-filling your clothes?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 09:43:27 pm by Mostali »
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Bumber

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2016, 12:08:26 am »

If I understand your soap chain correctly, it produces soap until your hospital is filled plus exactly one more.  Then everything else in the chain is 'loaded' for the next production.  That seems way better than mine.  Have you noticed if 'partial bars' count against this?  I might be somewhat afraid of dwarves using a bar once each, but I'm sure that could be worked around even if so.
All my partial bars are in the hospital. My well was recently filled and I haven't had anyone wash themselves with non-hospital soap yet.

Addendum: I suspect they'll count unless you add the "unused" trait (like the clothing industry requires.)

Quote
Another soap chain question. In my soap chain I have to watch out for the kitchen stealing the paste since you can't differentiate between the paste and the cakes in the kitchen menu.  Since you have one 'loaded', is this a problem for you or is it such a small 'leak' that it doesn't really matter?
I keep them near the screw press and not the kitchen. It selects closest first. Linked workshops work, too.

They'd get flooded out with all my other ingredients, anyway. There's always a bunch of cavern meat rotting in my butcher's shop and my prepared meals stockpile is full.

Quote
I didn't think of filling 'up to' on clothes. I used to manually count excess clothes and fill as needed, until I noticed that dwarves seem to keep claiming as long as I kept making. Ever since then I produce a fixed amount yearly based on number of dwarves and most of my clothes troubles have gone away. Have you noticed any extra hoarding with auto-filling your clothes?
I'd rather have them hoarding my masterworks than goblin trash. It got worse when I built cabinets, so I'd just avoid that in the future.

Overall, the greatest issue is bins. If a bin is tasked, all the items inside are ignored for conditions. Exacerbating this is that bin stockpiles tend to steal items from non-bin stockpiles.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 03:42:38 am by Bumber »
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Repseki

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2016, 07:19:00 am »

Do the workshop specific orders (designated from within the specific shop profile) respect stockpile links when checking for available materials?

Wondering because your soap reaction looks cleaner than what I had come up with by far, but I also plan on making clear glass, so only having 1 ASH for be difficult. So if stockpile links are respected, I should be able to link everything up and be fine. Or just tweak it a little if they don't only check linked piles.

It's definitely an interesting system with lots to mess with.
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Bumber

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2016, 08:11:50 am »

Do the workshop specific orders (designated from within the specific shop profile) respect stockpile links when checking for available materials?
Yes. No. It just appeared that way due to hauling.

I wrote a guide of sorts in another thread:
The most important thing to realize is that the quantity defines the size of a single batch. It starts in CHECKING mode and goes to ACTIVE when all conditions are met. It will stay in ACTIVE and not return to CHECKING until it completes the batch, so don't use infinite or it will never check the conditions again. Setting the frequency to daily/monthly/yearly, etc. lets you decide to leave the order inactive for a while before checking again.

Generally, pressing (r)eagents from the (c)onditions screen gives you good presets for inputs, which you can then tweak to your liking. (p)roducts gives you presets for outputs, so you can limit overproduction. Each entry consists of an item, material, and traits. Item is a base item, such as 'bolts', 'bars', 'liquid', or just 'item' for any type. Material is very specific, such as 'orthoclase', 'jabberer bone', or 'steel'. Traits are the most useful, containing such entries as 'bone', 'soap', 'metal', 'unrotten', etc., and they can be combined with each other. Going back outside to the manager screen, pressing (d) leads to the details screen, which is where you set job details like the engraving on a statue, or the material the job will actually use after it's done checking conditions. The conditions ignore hauled items (read: more bin problems.)

An example where you might use all three is: "unused dyed hemp cloth".
"Cloth" is the item type. If left as "item", we'd also get threads.
"Hemp" defines material. We don't want rope reed, cave spider silk, etc.
"Unused" and "dyed" are traits. "Unused" defines that it hasn't been partially used in a hospital, which would make it invalid for clothesmaking. "Dyed" means we don't want un-dyed cloth.
You'd want to set the cloth type on the details screen to "hemp", or they'd attempt to fill the order with all kinds of cloth despite all the trouble of checking for the existence of hemp. Unfortunately, there's no job detail for dyed cloth yet, so we're stuck using stockpile links in this example regardless.

I have some more practical examples in this post. I use some shorthand for the inequalities (e.g., <= means "at most", = means "exactly".)
The wiki could use updating.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 12:30:04 am by Bumber »
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ancient_vampire

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2016, 02:42:36 pm »

I dont understand what perpetual work ordes might be good for. It looks like they wait until all conditions are met, and then they run forever even when conditions are no longer met. Any ideas?

Is there a way to disable "work order complete" announcements? I havent found it in announcement.txt.
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Mostali

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2016, 06:53:40 pm »

I dont understand what perpetual work ordes might be good for. It looks like they wait until all conditions are met, and then they run forever even when conditions are no longer met. Any ideas?

"Perpetual" is pretty much "Repeat" except that the work order doesn't cancel even when the job does.  I never use it because the cancel spam drives me crazy.  But I suppose you could place a perpetual work order 'while you're thinking of it' to start when the conditions are met so you don't forget.  There might also be a way to suspend it once the spam starts, but I don't really see how that's any improvement over Repeat.

What it really needs is a companion work order that will cancel it when another set of conditions are met.  That could be extremely useful.
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freeze

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2016, 08:43:52 pm »

Hmm.. I was using it to mill plants from linked stockpiles (at least one millable plant and one empty bag, queue infinite, checked monthly) and it seemed that a cancel removed the job from the shop until the next month's order kicked off. I never did actually check that though, and soon afterwards went to demand based queueing.

e: OK, I think i see. I was using a workshop based order created in the building profile (q over building, shift p) not a manager order.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 10:15:05 pm by freeze »
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Bumber

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2016, 09:51:53 pm »

I dont understand what perpetual work ordes might be good for. It looks like they wait until all conditions are met, and then they run forever even when conditions are no longer met. Any ideas?
"Perpetual" is pretty much "Repeat" except that the work order doesn't cancel even when the job does. I never use it because the cancel spam drives me crazy. But I suppose you could place a perpetual work order 'while you're thinking of it' to start when the conditions are met so you don't forget. There might also be a way to suspend it once the spam starts, but I don't really see how that's any improvement over Repeat.

What it really needs is a companion work order that will cancel it when another set of conditions are met. That could be extremely useful.
The only way to suspend it I've found is to forbid the workshop or delete the order. I made a Suggestion that they could be used to mean "as many as possible", because they're otherwise just infinite orders with a start condition.

You can do that just by adding the extra set of conditions (or the activation of the other job) to a quantity 1 repeating work order.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 09:54:24 pm by Bumber »
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Bumber

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2016, 12:37:33 am »

The "bag" item doesn't exist on the item list, only "boxes and bags". You can get it from the "Conditions from reagents" for "Process plants (to bag)", but the item can't be changed after. The "Collect sand" job lacks this condition.

Looks like someone already submited a bug report.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2016, 12:39:05 am by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

steel jackal

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2016, 11:49:51 am »

thanks for this, ive been wondering how to use the new automation feature.
i hope dfhack keeps their automation plugin though, its a lot better than the vanilla one by what ive read
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ancient_vampire

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2016, 06:59:05 am »

thanks for this, ive been wondering how to use the new automation feature.
i hope dfhack keeps their automation plugin though, its a lot better than the vanilla one by what ive read

I donīt think so. The new condition system, when to start a job for example, is something workflow canīt do.
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Bumber

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2016, 08:57:43 am »

thanks for this, ive been wondering how to use the new automation feature.
i hope dfhack keeps their automation plugin though, its a lot better than the vanilla one by what ive read
I donīt think so. The new condition system, when to start a job for example, is something workflow canīt do.
I've never used it, but stockflow has stockpile-based automation. DF Hack job details are also better, as you can specify each input material.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 09:00:51 am by Bumber »
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Bumber

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2016, 01:13:43 am »

Claimed bolts don't count towards bolt count. Updated my list and added sand collection and melting.

Booze production at quantity 1 (checked daily) seems insufficient for my fort. Brewer creates one batch and then goofs off for several days while supplies dwindle. Increasing it to quantity 5.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 10:36:42 am by Bumber »
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

THE xTROLL FUR SOCKx RUSE WAS A........... DISTACTION        the carp HAVE the wagon

A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

Jebster

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2016, 04:11:39 am »

Hi guys. I don't know if this is the place for it but I believe I have found a slight malfunction with the new work order system. I had a few order chains set up to manage soap and booze production which were working fine. I then saved my game and came back to it a few days later. A while later I got loads of cancellation messages indicating a problem with the chain. On investigation I found that my soap chain wasn't working and had produced 30 lye even though it was set to keep at 10.

I figured I had made a mistake so reset the orders to stop the continuous lye production and everything was fine. Played for a bit, saved and came off.

Upon returning to the game I had another problem with the booze production where he was set to keep us at 500 booze but we reached 1500. The brewer seemed to just be producing constantly.

Basically it seems that upon saving and leaving the game some work orders can get stuck permanently "on". Anyone else noticed this or does it indicate another problem with my work order systems?

Both were working fine for a few hours before I saved and closed the game. It was always on coming back to the fortress that they played up.

Thanks,

Jebster.
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Repseki

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Re: DF v.43 Work orders questions and suggestions
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2016, 04:48:29 am »

Claimed bolts don't count towards bolt count. Updated my list and added sand collection and melting.

Booze production at quantity 1 (checked daily) seems insufficient for my fort. Brewer creates one batch and then goofs off for several days while supplies dwindle. Increasing it to quantity 5.

You could probably also set the orders individually in a few different Stills instead of just having a global order. Might not be worth it unless you are going to try and micro a few specific booze types with linked stockpiles though.
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