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[Orbotosh]

A while ago there was a discussion on the Future of The Fortress thread about how wild magic should work, mainly about dealing with the "Wild" part in a way that didn't make it completely impractical. Here's how I think decent wild magic should work.

Magical abilities should be flexible, a master of the arts of creating and controlling undead should be able to use that ability in any way that fits the most literal definition of those powers available. For example, she could use her powers to bolster the immune systems by creating undead white blood cells in the recipients bloodstream that terminate targeted parasites more efficiently.

HOWEVER, using magic in an unfamiliar way should have dangerous consequences that fit the type of spell used. Expanding on the undead healing ability earlier, if improperly performed the spell could cause the target have undead skin flakes crawling all over them or worse, suffer from horrific undead tumors! Obviously not something you want to do. This effect scales up with the complexity and power of the spell, a botched fireball will just set the caster's hand on fire, while screwing up an attempt at creating a water elemental could cause a flood!

The best way for this to work is for each class of magic (probably classified by Spheres) to have an associated skill. That skill can be used to create spells, the quality of which can depend on the mages skill. Each spell has its own "skill", which is gained by using the spell and can have a bonus from the associated spell class' skill. The quality of a spell design also affects how easy it is to cast. A ☼Create Fire Elemental☼ can be much easier and safer than a xStart Small Firex, even in the hands of a novice.

Teel Deer: Wild Magic can be used to make new spells if creatively applied. However, botching your Wild Magic leads to a thematically similar effect of the same power to occur.

[vjmdhzgr]

This sounds like exactly the thing that NW_Kohaku spent so long arguing against. It's literally just "has a chance of failing horribly". You act like it fixes the problem of it being impractical, but you didn't even change anything, it's exactly the same as other people have suggested and has been assessed as impractical.

[Orbotosh]

This sounds like exactly the thing that NW_Kohaku spent so long arguing against. It's literally just "has a chance of failing horribly". You act like it fixes the problem of it being impractical, but you didn't even change anything, it's exactly the same as other people have suggested and has been assessed as impractical.

My intention was that the basics of magical abilities were reliable but grew more dangerous if the use was "weirder" and/or more powerful. I admit that I conveyed this badly.

[IndigoFenix]

I kind of think that the essence of wild magic is not its danger or its tendency to turn against you randomly, but its "moodiness" and unwillingness to be controlled.  The source of the magic acts like it has a mind of its own, and needs to be shown respect to keep it on your side.  In that regard, it is rather similar to religion based magic, but invoking an abstract force instead of a specific god.

Perhaps building a relationship with the source of the magic simply means living in accordance with the "rules" of its spheres (not harming trees for a tree force, random arson for a fire force, etc), unlike gods which require regular prayer and service.

Calling on wild magic when you are on good relations with the source shouldn't cause it to turn against you, but the details of what happens when you invoke its power may be unreliable.  You simply ask it for help and it may respond in one of many possible ways.

Backfiring due to an unskilled casting seems more appropriate for wizard magic.

[Orbotosh]

I kind of think that the essence of wild magic is not its danger or its tendency to turn against you randomly, but its "moodiness" and unwillingness to be controlled.  The source of the magic acts like it has a mind of its own, and needs to be shown respect to keep it on your side.  In that regard, it is rather similar to religion based magic, but invoking an abstract force instead of a specific god.

Perhaps building a relationship with the source of the magic simply means living in accordance with the "rules" of its spheres (not harming trees for a tree force, random arson for a fire force, etc), unlike gods which require regular prayer and service.

Calling on wild magic when you are on good relations with the source shouldn't cause it to turn against you, but the details of what happens when you invoke its power may be unreliable.  You simply ask it for help and it may respond in one of many possible ways.

Natural Force themed theurgy sounds a lot like elf magic.

[Dirst]

It might help to keep an eye on what distinguishes "magic" from "religion" from "science."

When the distribution of outcomes is fairly-well understood, activities take on a Scientific character.  If you do X and Y under condition Z then you get beer 90% of the time (and an inedible mess the other 10%), that's basically a Scientific undertaking.  Advanced Science involves abstracting away the essential elements of relationships into theories to apply them in new situations.

When the distribution of outcomes is mysterious, activities take on a Magical character.  If you do A under condition B and C happens, then the presence of A and B causes C until proven otherwise, especially if controlled experimentation is not feasible.  In everyday life, this is known as falling back on heuristics.  Apparent contradictions call for rationalizing B, and can get quite complicated like a Scientific theory.  A lot of ritual can be explained as a way of getting the practitioner into a frame of mind that is more likely to lead to success.

When the distribution of outcomes is too important to leave to debate, activities take on a Religious character.  Whereas Magic is often utilitarian and on a personal scale (improving one's chances in the hunt, or healing a sick relative), Religion deals with social issues that are Too Big To Fail.  Religion is preventing plagues, regulating the seasons, and tramsitting culture to the next generation.  By its nature, Religion tends to scope-creep into prescribing about every facet of public life... and the explanations are typically expected to apply in private as well.  Magic tends to be occult (private or small-group hoarding of esoteric knowledge) while Religion tends to be overt.

Note that Religious figures can resort to what I'm calling Magic, though they would not call it that.  In the real world, Baptism and Matrimony would be Religious rituals, while Exorcism would be a Magical rite.

An example crossing all three categories might help.  Hunting fish in a lagoon is pretty safe, and eventually people will figure out what works and what doesn't.  This will be a Scientific exercise with a skill that is handed down from father-to-son or mother-to-daughter.  Hunting sharks on the open ocean invites lots of potential for disaster, most of which are dimly understood.  This will be a Magical exercise with plenty of ritual and symbolism to recall past successful hunts.  Hunting heretics within the community carries risks too great to leave to fallible mortals.  This will be a Religious exercise with unassailable justification, and probably a lot of extrapolation from failure-to-observe-a-specific-norm into this-is-a-bad-person.

"Wild magic" is an attempt to shoehorn Magic's mysterious outcomes into a game full of inherently Scientific rules.

One alternative is the one Toady mentioned, which is to give the magical ability its own personality... and make outcomes depend on the state of the relationship in that instant.  This isn't too far off from the Avatar concept in Mage: The Ascension, except that that game relies far more on roleplaying than dice.

Another alternative is to simulate the development of Magic during pre-history (myth generation) and history (worldgen), perhaps borrowing some of the elements of art/dance generation to lessen the level of detail necessary in the simulation.  Basically, a set of associations gets built up to form a Magical framework.  The complex web of causation allows for a healthy chance of failure... and a non-trivial chance of getting a wholly unexpected result.

So, instead of trying to build a better Wild Magic Table, try to find a mechanism that does a satisfactory job of accomplishing the real goal: mysterious outcomes.

Edit: Grammar