Topic: Viability of water as a trade good (Read 10972 times)

Prop42 · « **on:** June 10, 2016, 03:26:02 pm »

So, I had an idea, based on what someone said in a completely different thread, involving a system that filled up minecarts with various liquids, which worked something like this:

1. Dwarf pushes minecart onto a roller, which propels it forward a bit.
2. Minecart gains velocity as it goes down the hill
3. Minecart activates pressure plates, opening all 3 floodgates, labeled as X's. As it enters the single tile chamber, it fills up with water, and also triggers a second pressure plate, which closes the floodgates, and allows water to accumulate. After a few seconds, the pressure plate opens the final door, activates a roller underneath the minecart, propelling it forward, until the minecart hits a third pressure plate, closing the final floodgate.
4. Minecart exits, onto a final ramp to bleed off velocity, and lands in a stockpile.
5. Water is sold to merchants.

Would this work, and, if it did, would it be worth the effort? If I remember correctly, water has a value of 1, so if I could fill a single minecart up with several hundred units of water, it could theoretically be traded for immense profit, correct? I assume there are major flaws in this design, but if a working version could be rigged up, one could, in theory, export magma to traders. What do you guys think?

Dunamisdeos · « **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2016, 03:33:34 pm »

So fill up a minecart with [liquid] and then sell the minecart, still containing the [liquid] to traders.

If it works, that'd be pretty rad.

Fleeting Frames · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2016, 03:49:55 pm »

Yeah the design is needlessly complicated, no matter if you're filling water or magma. You don't need power, floodgates or mechanisms at all, can fill either one in a single push per cart.

However, I suppose [833] +50*quality for minecart beats any wooden spiked ball below masterwork, and even in that case it is 1433 vs 1512.Granted, it's more jobs...Is there anything not improved by adding minecarts?

Though, the big caveat would be that water-filled cart is heavy like an ore boulder. If traders have weight limits, this would likely hit it.

Otherwise, I don't suppose making magma-filled carts and exporting to traders might result in magma being brought by traders to new fortress in same world after retiring the old?

Sanctume · « **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2016, 03:50:45 pm »

1 submerged minecart is filled with 2/7 worth of liquid.

i.e. magma-safe minecart goes into a tile flooded with 7/7 magma, results in 5/7 magma with the minecart having 2/7 worth of magma.

Said minecart can be dumped via trackstop, which results in 2/7 magma in the destination pit.

A filled magma, when examined via (t) shows [833] magma, if it is filled with water, it would say [833] water.

I assume that this is the amount of water in units = 2/7.

Sanctume · « **Reply #4 on:** June 10, 2016, 03:52:38 pm »

Quote from: Fleeting Frames on June 10, 2016, 03:49:55 pm

Otherwise, I don't suppose making magma-filled carts and exporting to traders might result in magma being brought by traders to new fortress in same world after retiring the old?

It would be a glorious !!science!! if said merchants bursts into flames as soon as they leave the region, or reaching their destination, i.e. Elven Forest Retreat.

Prop42 · « **Reply #5 on:** June 10, 2016, 03:53:17 pm »

Actually, now that I think about it, I don't even need the big mechanical system. I could just have a dwarf guide a minecart to a single tile chamber, close the door to the chamber (after the dwarf has vacated, hopefully), and throw open the vertical floodgate for a few ticks, filling the chamber with water, before opening it, which would spread about 5/7 of water around the general area, while still filling the cart. The cart can then be guided to a stockpile, and used as a trade good.

But, of course, pragmatism has no place in Dwarf Fortress. I'll set up a dwarf-operated system first, to see if it works, then go about mechanical nonsense later.

Sanctume · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2016, 04:00:07 pm »

I wonder if fresh water gets value mark up.
A system without getting wet in this vertical contraption.
z+2 minecart stockpile, garbage dump (pit)
z+1 extra vertical space, probably not needed, (pit) with door access.
z+0 screw pump into pit with door access on other end.
z-1 extra vertical space, actually needed for dumped minecart stacking, (pit) with door access.
z-2 pit with grate, and door access.
z-3 pit with hatch cover, linked to lever for drain control, walled after
z-4 portable drain, track stop, with minecart dump onto a wall, walled after.

mass dump minecarts in z+2.
minecarts bottom most will be on z-2, and the rest are quantum piled on z-1.
pump fresh water in z+0, floods the pit with 7/7 water, and minecarts with [833] water. (edit: manually start, and quickly stop to prevent pressure to floodup when dealing with water. this is not an issue for magma)
open hatch in z-3, which instantly drains water into z-4 at 5/7.
No wet floor, unforbid the minecarts, unlock door behind grate at z-2.

Can be done with magma and magma-safe stuff.

RocheLimit · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2016, 04:36:56 pm »

Funny this topic should pop up; I just built a pair of loaders as described by Sanctume and noticed for the first time the value of the 2 units of water contained within a single minecart.

Here's the loader pair I built:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Fleeting Frames · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2016, 05:23:15 pm »

Hm, I suppose with stockpiled carts could easily automate filling them - though instead of garbage dumps perhaps just use minecart QSP dumping minecarts into a hole. You might also want 2z of water there, Sanctume, so the quantum-carts dumped in will all fill. Can make it across 4z like this:
↓Stockpile that dumps down the hole.
Minecarts, screw pump
Minecarts, Hatch cover, downstairs
Minecart portable hole

@Prop42: If you're setting up individual carts, just have the cart go into a hole with water and impulse/valid ramp +fake ramp on bottom to leave said water.

Dunamisdeos · « **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2016, 06:04:37 pm »

The real question is whether or not it will count the water in the cart, or whether it will auto-dump it. THEN the question is whether molten-gold laced liquids are worth more.

Fun times with magma possible?

:EDIT:
Hang on, isn't the various bloods-of-mythical-creatures worth money? And can't you "lace" multiples into one cart? Because you could make a money-printing operation on the same level of intrinsic horror as certain unmentionable sentient aquatics.

Fleeting Frames · « **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2016, 06:14:10 pm »

I don't know, not killing your livestock seems like a step up, ranking just below making cheese and picking apples.

Still, I don't think "lacing" would increase value - or are water-covered mittens more valuable than dry mittens?

As for molten gold, it tends to disappear on it's own if left alone quite quickly and is worth 1 or 0 iirc.

Sanctume · « **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2016, 06:39:07 pm »

lacing is a contaminant, and will not go in a minecart because that object is just plain liquid [833] unit.

the contaminant will either settle below or adjacent walls.

Fleeting Frames · « **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2016, 06:58:43 pm »

You could just coat the cart itself after filling by just having it be carried through 3/7 contaminated water, I think.

Larix · « **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2016, 07:41:37 pm »

I've traded water-filled carts to caravans, and it works just as expected - you get 833☼ for the water, but have to sell the "container" with it. An exceptional wooden cart already clocks in at 250☼, so the water doesn't exactly break the bank.

To the best of my knowledge, contaminants/lacings don't affect item value.

Prop42 · « **Reply #14 on:** June 10, 2016, 08:45:02 pm »

Well, before I could get my system set up, a werebear arrived and completely slaughtered my millitary before running away, leaving everyone else so completely grief-stricken that nothing got done for about a season. Before long, a caravan arrived, rode their wagons into the depot, then immediately turned back around, and left, leaving the depot full of shit, and likely stifling relations with everyone else.

On the bright side, I now have wagon wood.

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Author Topic: Viability of water as a trade good (Read 10972 times)

Prop42

Viability of water as a trade good

Dunamisdeos

Re: Viability of water as a trade good

Fleeting Frames

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Sanctume

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Sanctume

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Prop42

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Sanctume

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RocheLimit

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Fleeting Frames

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Dunamisdeos

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Fleeting Frames

Re: Viability of water as a trade good

Sanctume

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Fleeting Frames

Re: Viability of water as a trade good

Larix

Re: Viability of water as a trade good

Prop42

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